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Machines Not So Great for NeuroMuscular Activation?
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southbeach

Great arm Dan!
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marcrph

Portugal

Dan_The_man wrote:
I build mass doing a combination of machines, free weights, cable pulleys and whatever else I fancy. I use HIT as a baseline marker every now and then but as a training method to use exclusively I find it boring and concrete bound. I try my best to make every workout different, and enjoy every workout if my mind isnt in it I won't bother exercising.

Sometimes I'll go weeks not exercising, or just doing pullups and pushups if I have no access to a gym. I value HIT as a baseline marker or for those who have busy lives, but for someone that likes training like myself, I find it boring.


Dan,

Be careful with admissions here.
Many on this forum will state nasty things to you for changing your routine(s), and heaven help, your mind on exercise.
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southbeach

marcrph wrote:
Dan_The_man wrote:
I build mass doing a combination of machines, free weights, cable pulleys and whatever else I fancy. I use HIT as a baseline marker every now and then but as a training method to use exclusively I find it boring and concrete bound. I try my best to make every workout different, and enjoy every workout if my mind isnt in it I won't bother exercising.

Sometimes I'll go weeks not exercising, or just doing pullups and pushups if I have no access to a gym. I value HIT as a baseline marker or for those who have busy lives, but for someone that likes training like myself, I find it boring.

Dan,

Be careful with admissions here.
Many on this forum will state nasty things to you for changing your routine(s), and heaven help, your mind on exercise.


Boredom and results are two different thing entirely. I train for results not entertainment. Only the human can tell the difference, a muscle knows only contraction.
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Dan Davidson

Connecticut, USA

marcrph wrote:
Dan_The_man wrote:
I build mass doing a combination of machines, free weights, cable pulleys and whatever else I fancy. I use HIT as a baseline marker every now and then but as a training method to use exclusively I find it boring and concrete bound. I try my best to make every workout different, and enjoy every workout if my mind isnt in it I won't bother exercising.

Sometimes I'll go weeks not exercising, or just doing pullups and pushups if I have no access to a gym. I value HIT as a baseline marker or for those who have busy lives, but for someone that likes training like myself, I find it boring.

Dan,

Be careful with admissions here.
Many on this forum will state nasty things to you for changing your routine(s), and heaven help, your mind on exercise.


No marcrph, the only ones with a problem changing routines are the SS/Renex (Hutchins, McGuff) types. Arthur had athletes changing routines often.
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db144

LOL, SB trains for results. That's rich.

d
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marcrph

Portugal

Dan Davidson wrote:
marcrph wrote:
Dan_The_man wrote:
I build mass doing a combination of machines, free weights, cable pulleys and whatever else I fancy. I use HIT as a baseline marker every now and then but as a training method to use exclusively I find it boring and concrete bound. I try my best to make every workout different, and enjoy every workout if my mind isnt in it I won't bother exercising.

Sometimes I'll go weeks not exercising, or just doing pullups and pushups if I have no access to a gym. I value HIT as a baseline marker or for those who have busy lives, but for someone that likes training like myself, I find it boring.

Dan,

Be careful with admissions here.
Many on this forum will state nasty things to you for changing your routine(s), and heaven help, your mind on exercise.

No marcrph, the only ones with a problem changing routines are the SS/Renex (Hutchins, McGuff) types. Arthur had athletes changing routines often.


The worst thing about SS/RENEX is these cookie cutter routine(s). All should train toward A goal. You cannot serve two masters. I go for strength, and do the minimal conditioning work. If your gig is muscle mass, then train for that. If you want endurance, train for that also. This cookie cutter stance makes HIT very unattractive. One set to failure of 8-12 reps done for 8 exercises 2x weekly does not a power-lifter make. It is what it is: a modest exercise routine resulting in modest results.....look to the left.
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Dan Davidson

Connecticut, USA

marcrph wrote:
Dan Davidson wrote:
marcrph wrote:
Dan_The_man wrote:
I build mass doing a combination of machines, free weights, cable pulleys and whatever else I fancy. I use HIT as a baseline marker every now and then but as a training method to use exclusively I find it boring and concrete bound. I try my best to make every workout different, and enjoy every workout if my mind isnt in it I won't bother exercising.

Sometimes I'll go weeks not exercising, or just doing pullups and pushups if I have no access to a gym. I value HIT as a baseline marker or for those who have busy lives, but for someone that likes training like myself, I find it boring.

Dan,

Be careful with admissions here.
Many on this forum will state nasty things to you for changing your routine(s), and heaven help, your mind on exercise.

No marcrph, the only ones with a problem changing routines are the SS/Renex (Hutchins, McGuff) types. Arthur had athletes changing routines often.

The worst thing about SS/RENEX is these cookie cutter routine(s). All should train toward A goal. You cannot serve two masters. I go for strength, and do the minimal conditioning work. If your gig is muscle mass, then train for that. If you want endurance, train for that also. This cookie cutter stance makes HIT very unattractive. One set to failure of 8-12 reps done for 8 exercises 2x weekly does not a power-lifter make. It is what it is: a modest exercise routine resulting in modest results.....look to the left.


marcrph, what you described as HIT barely scratches the surface of Arthur's protocols. I know you've been around this site for a long time but what have you researched?

I probably sound like a broken record but have you read the Nautilus Bulletins? Go on ArthurJonesExercise.com and read all of Arthur's stuff. Believe me you'll have a whole new perspective.

I'm leaving at 6 am tomorrow for FL to train with Jim Flanagan and Dave Landau. Jim said we were going to do Arthur's "hyper" protocol. I know very little about it but a few people have told me to be afraid....be very afraid.
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backtrack

Arthur may have had people changing routines but HIT has been diluted and distilled many times since then. It's important if HIT does have a true value that it does not become bastardized. He also trained a lot of people and knew how to get them motivated. Hitting one set to failure used to worry me. I used to think, if the set doesnt go very well, I cant do another set because I'll overtrain, and if I didnt get results from that set think i wasnt training hard enough, been literally stuck under bars a few times because of this. Overtime realized I find Arthur Jones the person more interesting than HIT. I liked the frankness of Jones, that is all too lacking in todays world.

But, when I was in my late teens I first discovered HIT and from then wasted about 4-5 years training believing from the Mentzer books and other books I read I should keep repeating the same routines and cut back to maybe just for exercises of one set each per week once per week. It took me a long time to realize this was nonsense. I got to a point where I realized I was just following a routine for the sake of it. WRITTEN DOWN IN A BOOK. I wasn?t getting results and I had to change something because looking back, in photographs of myself I looked no different to ordinary guys even tho I trained hard. I later thought long and hard about what first brought me towards recreational bodybuilding and realized it was just that feel of feeling my muscles work. So I decided to lighten the weights not bother about whether I hit failure or not and just aim to try to feel the muscles in a given area as much as possible, strangely enough results came in appearence, even if I didnt feel capable of picking up heavier weights I realized over time, for me at least, the main focus of bodybuilding is feeling the muscle ? the visualization you have, ironically enough, with eyes closed. Not doing partials, rest pause negative accentuated, or cutting this or cutting that. My approach is to visualize as much as possible and when I feel I cannot muster as much feeling in my arms as strong then I discontinue my workout on the given muscle until next time.

Only thing is when you have a good workout it does feel like entertainment. The focus is there the intensity is there and the results are visible. Mindlessly shifting a weight from point a to point b and focusing on how many seconds it takes you, as far as I?m concerned won?t get you good results. It makes it all look a scientific, but its never worked for me. Forget the time frame, forget the reps, forget the sets, and forget failure, don?t limit exercises just have good form and concentrate on the muscle and keep going until that muscle won?t feel any tighter.


Dan
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spud

marcrph wrote:
This cookie cutter stance makes HIT very unattractive. One set to failure of 8-12 reps done for 8 exercises 2x weekly does not a power-lifter make. It is what it is: a modest exercise routine resulting in modest results.....look to the left.


What about one set to failure of 5-8 reps done for 6 exercise every 5 days?

That and the routine you mentioned above perhaps would not make a powerlifter, but it could potentially give a whole new lease of life to someone in their 50s and older.

A powerlifting routine isn't going to be much good at warding off the negative effects of the early onset of sarcopenia when someone gets into their 40s and 50s. Well, it may be ok for muscular development, but the volume, weight loads and style of repetitions performed will probably lead to injury.

HIT, with it's focus on safe, quality reps at least gives people a chance against injury, although if the quality of execution is poor, any routine, regardless of how it looks on paper, can be ineffective or result in injury.

If someone asked whether I would rather have my 63 year old mother train in a Renex style or a powerlifting style, I wouldn't hesitate to say Renex. Why? Because I could almost guarantee that she wouldn't get injured, regardless of what else people think of Josh, Ken Hutchins or the protocol.

Speaking of cookie cutter routines, have you heard of Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe? That's about as cookie cutter as it gets. It would seem not just a HIT thing apparently.

About 3 years ago I heard that Mark Rippetoe deadlifted 405 for 8 reps with a double overhand grip and no straps.

That's an impressive lifting feat for someone in his 50s, I won't take that away from him. But he looks pretty bad and has been quoted as saying that his shoulders require 20 minutes of warm up before he can press.

David Landau is of similar age, and whilst he may not be able to shift as much weight, I know who I'd rather look like. I know who everyone would rather look like.

Will Rippetoe look as good as Dr Darden does when he gets to the age of 69? Doubt it.

Perhaps there is a middle ground.

Doug Holland.

He still performs his powerlifts like this - http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=Mwmuk4N1Dv4

He does his assistance work like this - http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=o5-L8WKYpJY

and I'm betting not many folk can do this - http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=5OhqT7nEArA

Granted Doug Holland is the only person that we can point to as dabbling in powerlifting whilst training in an HIT style, but from what I understand his son and wife also train in the same manner.

Don't be so quick to dismiss HIT. From what I can see it has a wider range of applications than strength athlete protocols and more to offer more people, even into old age.
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robinn3403

coachjeff wrote:
Of course I will also say that I've yet to see any scientific proof that free-weights build muscle any better than a machine either. So I lean towards believing this whole issue is a probably a red-herring. And even if free-weights were shown to give slightly better results, I think that would have to be weighed against safety issues. The average Joe and Jane are much safer doing a machine bench press or fly IMO than the free-weight versions. Heck, I know what I'm doing with free-weights, and even I sometimes get a wee bit nervous when doing real heavy DB bench presses. One misstep and my teeth are going to get knocked out by a falling DB. But no danger of lost dentition on my ole 10-degree chest machine.

But still would like to know if there really is much of an increase in the NMA of the TARGET MUSCLE with free weights. And if so, does that even matter much?



Again AJ was right back in approx 1968, more likely earlier than even that. 'a muscle does not know what its lifting'
How could it? The muscle is contracting on command. Be that command to lift on a Nautilus Duo Squat, Barbell or Budwieser. We all must agree their are different forms of resistance in life. AJ simply redirected that gravatational resistance via cams and sprockets. Genius in that simplicity!
Any form of resistance will build muscle if its progressive in nature. Lifting rocks to boulders to concrete bridges. Lifting a barbell is hard work to be sure but as AJ & Dr D have so clearly pointed out, Nautilus varies the resistance so it is a superior form of resistance. Which brings us back to 'a muscle does not know what is making it contract'. Its just the load imposed from whereever/whatever.
I personally mix the two. My personal theory is Barbells for most compound stuff and machines for the single joint stuff. Currently doing DB Decline Bench ( slight ). Easier on my shoulder(s)
Dig up AJ's articles and read and study them. I don't think we really realize how far ahead of his time he was.
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marcrph

Portugal

Dan Davidson wrote:
marcrph wrote:
Dan Davidson wrote:
marcrph wrote:
Dan_The_man wrote:
I build mass doing a combination of machines, free weights, cable pulleys and whatever else I fancy. I use HIT as a baseline marker every now and then but as a training method to use exclusively I find it boring and concrete bound. I try my best to make every workout different, and enjoy every workout if my mind isnt in it I won't bother exercising.

Sometimes I'll go weeks not exercising, or just doing pullups and pushups if I have no access to a gym. I value HIT as a baseline marker or for those who have busy lives, but for someone that likes training like myself, I find it boring.

Dan,

Be careful with admissions here.
Many on this forum will state nasty things to you for changing your routine(s), and heaven help, your mind on exercise.

No marcrph, the only ones with a problem changing routines are the SS/Renex (Hutchins, McGuff) types. Arthur had athletes changing routines often.

The worst thing about SS/RENEX is these cookie cutter routine(s). All should train toward A goal. You cannot serve two masters. I go for strength, and do the minimal conditioning work. If your gig is muscle mass, then train for that. If you want endurance, train for that also. This cookie cutter stance makes HIT very unattractive. One set to failure of 8-12 reps done for 8 exercises 2x weekly does not a power-lifter make. It is what it is: a modest exercise routine resulting in modest results.....look to the left.

marcrph, what you described as HIT barely scratches the surface of Arthur's protocols. I know you've been around this site for a long time but what have you researched?

I probably sound like a broken record but have you read the Nautilus Bulletins? Go on ArthurJonesExercise.com and read all of Arthur's stuff. Believe me you'll have a whole new perspective.

I'm leaving at 6 am tomorrow for FL to train with Jim Flanagan and Dave Landau. Jim said we were going to do Arthur's "hyper" protocol. I know very little about it but a few people have told me to be afraid....be very afraid.


The problem is not with Arthur Jones, but all the pseudo-high intensity training guru's since.
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Tomislav

New York, USA

Dan_The_man wrote:
Only thing is when you have a good workout it does feel like entertainment. The focus is there the intensity is there and the results are visible. Mindlessly shifting a weight from point a to point b and focusing on how many seconds it takes you, as far as I?m concerned won?t get you good results. It makes it all look a scientific, but its never worked for me. Forget the time frame, forget the reps, forget the sets, and forget failure, don?t limit exercises just have good form and concentrate on the muscle and keep going until that muscle won?t feel any tighter.


Dan


Dan,
I agree many classify that as HIT but IMO those items actually separate the workout from the basic elements of HIT:

Hard, brief and infrequent training.

And it seems to me the more scientific approach is to work heavier in the power ROM in lieu of full ROM and count only the 5-7 minutes between heavy sets rather than tutting; at least in terms of building mass.
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Michael Petrella

Ontario, CAN

spud wrote:
marcrph wrote:
This cookie cutter stance makes HIT very unattractive. One set to failure of 8-12 reps done for 8 exercises 2x weekly does not a power-lifter make. It is what it is: a modest exercise routine resulting in modest results.....look to the left.

What about one set to failure of 5-8 reps done for 6 exercise every 5 days?

That and the routine you mentioned above perhaps would not make a powerlifter, but it could potentially give a whole new lease of life to someone in their 50s and older.

A powerlifting routine isn't going to be much good at warding off the negative effects of the early onset of sarcopenia when someone gets into their 40s and 50s. Well, it may be ok for muscular development, but the volume, weight loads and style of repetitions performed will probably lead to injury.

HIT, with it's focus on safe, quality reps at least gives people a chance against injury, although if the quality of execution is poor, any routine, regardless of how it looks on paper, can be ineffective or result in injury.

If someone asked whether I would rather have my 63 year old mother train in a Renex style or a powerlifting style, I wouldn't hesitate to say Renex. Why? Because I could almost guarantee that she wouldn't get injured, regardless of what else people think of Josh, Ken Hutchins or the protocol.

Speaking of cookie cutter routines, have you heard of Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe? That's about as cookie cutter as it gets. It would seem not just a HIT thing apparently.

About 3 years ago I heard that Mark Rippetoe deadlifted 405 for 8 reps with a double overhand grip and no straps.

That's an impressive lifting feat for someone in his 50s, I won't take that away from him. But he looks pretty bad and has been quoted as saying that his shoulders require 20 minutes of warm up before he can press.

David Landau is of similar age, and whilst he may not be able to shift as much weight, I know who I'd rather look like. I know who everyone would rather look like.

Will Rippetoe look as good as Dr Darden does when he gets to the age of 69? Doubt it.

Perhaps there is a middle ground.

Doug Holland.

He still performs his powerlifts like this - http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=Mwmuk4N1Dv4

He does his assistance work like this - http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=o5-L8WKYpJY

and I'm betting not many folk can do this - http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=5OhqT7nEArA

Granted Doug Holland is the only person that we can point to as dabbling in powerlifting whilst training in an HIT style, but from what I understand his son and wife also train in the same manner.

Don't be so quick to dismiss HIT. From what I can see it has a wider range of applications than strength athlete protocols and more to offer more people, even into old age.


Doug is not the only one. We have produced 2 WPC World Champions in powerlifting. Too many National Champions to count. None of them train more then 2 hours a week. This includes 3 guys benching over 400 drug free. This year I hope to produce my first women who can both squat and deadlift 300 in competitive form. Also we had a 13 year old bench 291. He did hit 300 in his first month of being 14 years old.

www.stgstrengthandpower.com

Michael
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db144

Spud:

I couldn't agree more that SS/RenEx is best for the elderly and injured as it was intended. As for reaching one's genetic max. in muscle, good luck.

d
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marcrph

Portugal

Michael

Awesome
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Acerimmer1

coachjeff wrote:
Over at BB.com one of the more respected posters has repeatedly posted about the concept of neuromuscular activation, stating that machines create the least of it.

I will quote him here...

"The Bulgarians determined that exercises with the highest "NMA" factor, or Neuro Muscular Activation will produce the greatest results for the bodypart trained.

In case there are people on this site who don't understand why "Bulgarian" research is so useful, Bulgaria basically devoted ALL of their sports research to Olympic lifting and weight training, as only an Eastern Bloc country could do. Their thinking was why water it down, we are small lets just devote to one sport that we can be good at (short, stock population) for the glory of communism.


NMA hierarchy: from "lowest" to highest

1. Isolation exercises on variable resistance machines e.g. nautilus leg extension

2. Compound exercise, variable resistance machine e.g. Nautilus chest press.

3. Isolation exercise, non-variable resistance machine e.g. universal leg extension, pulley curls etc

4. Non variable resistance compound exercises e.g. smith machine bench press.

5. Isolation exercises, free weight e.g. db flye, db side lateral

6. Compound exercises, free weight e.g. bench press

7. HIGHEST-Moving the body through space e.g. Squat, Deadlift, Chin-up etc. Yes, WEIGHTED push-ups, according to this, would be superior to Bench presses if they could be practically done.

Notice free weight isolation exercises are higher than machine compounds, so flyes would be better size builders than smith bench presses, which I would believe from experience.

I think having beginners start with machines is a HUGE and DANGEROUS mistake. When one trains with machines, the prime movers get stronger, while the stabilizers get proportionately even weaker, so when free weights are eventually used, you are VERY vulnerable to injury."

END QUOTE....

Now I am personally rather skeptical that there is that big a difference between free-weights and machines in terms of results in the long-run. But this claim about neuromuscular activation has got me wondering.

I do not have the time to research this in-depth these days, so was wondering if any here are familiar with this research and it's validity or non-validity?


Read this years ago in Big Beyond Belief it's not a direct quote but the 7 levels are worded exactly the same. I don't know if it's 100% true but there's certainly no reason to fear loosing size by following this advice. I would do it and it matches my experience to date but I don't have regular access to Nautilus or MedX.
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Acerimmer1

marcrph wrote:
Dan Davidson wrote:
marcrph wrote:
Dan Davidson wrote:
marcrph wrote:
Dan_The_man wrote:
I build mass doing a combination of machines, free weights, cable pulleys and whatever else I fancy. I use HIT as a baseline marker every now and then but as a training method to use exclusively I find it boring and concrete bound. I try my best to make every workout different, and enjoy every workout if my mind isnt in it I won't bother exercising.

Sometimes I'll go weeks not exercising, or just doing pullups and pushups if I have no access to a gym. I value HIT as a baseline marker or for those who have busy lives, but for someone that likes training like myself, I find it boring.

Dan,

Be careful with admissions here.
Many on this forum will state nasty things to you for changing your routine(s), and heaven help, your mind on exercise.

No marcrph, the only ones with a problem changing routines are the SS/Renex (Hutchins, McGuff) types. Arthur had athletes changing routines often.

The worst thing about SS/RENEX is these cookie cutter routine(s). All should train toward A goal. You cannot serve two masters. I go for strength, and do the minimal conditioning work. If your gig is muscle mass, then train for that. If you want endurance, train for that also. This cookie cutter stance makes HIT very unattractive. One set to failure of 8-12 reps done for 8 exercises 2x weekly does not a power-lifter make. It is what it is: a modest exercise routine resulting in modest results.....look to the left.

marcrph, what you described as HIT barely scratches the surface of Arthur's protocols. I know you've been around this site for a long time but what have you researched?

I probably sound like a broken record but have you read the Nautilus Bulletins? Go on ArthurJonesExercise.com and read all of Arthur's stuff. Believe me you'll have a whole new perspective.

I'm leaving at 6 am tomorrow for FL to train with Jim Flanagan and Dave Landau. Jim said we were going to do Arthur's "hyper" protocol. I know very little about it but a few people have told me to be afraid....be very afraid.

The problem is not with Arthur Jones, but all the pseudo-high intensity training guru's since.


Imo the problem is that hit which was intended to define a protocol has become a brand. The problem there is that brands need to reinvent themselves to survive whereas a definition that reinvents itself is worse than useless.

Yes hit represents a different way of thinking about exercise but that does not mean that t
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coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

Statistics do indicate that machines are safer overall, and of course safety is VERY critical.

Quoted from...
http://www.cultureofsafety.com/...ht-area-safety/

Two football players were working out at a local fitness center where they were both members. They were both experienced weightlifters and had performed the lifts using the same weights numerous times before. One was using 50 pound dumbbells while the other was stretching on the ground. After he was done with his set he dropped them to the ground.

Unbeknownst to him, his friend?s hand happened to be right below the dumbbells and one of them landed on his left hand severing his left ring finger instantly. The football player who lost his finger was rushed to the emergency room, but doctors where unable to reattach his severed finger due to the amount of trauma to the area. The young man brought suit against the fitness center for negligence and failure to supervise properly. He is seeking over $200,000 in damages.

Statistics...

Injuries from weight lifting have been on the rise steadily due to increased popularity in physical fitness, especially strength training. One of the largest sources of exercise-related injuries is from weight-training. The major causes of injuries from free weights comes from strains or lifting too much, improper lifting techniques, incorrectly secured weights, and dropping, hitting, or pinching oneself or another individual with the weights.

From 1990 to 2007 there were over 970,000 weight training related injuries treated in emergency rooms in the United States.

82% of these injuries were sustained by males.

Youths from the ages of 13 to 24 experienced 47% of the injuries.

90% of all weight lifting injuries came from the use of free weights.
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Landau

Florida, USA

coachjeff wrote:
Statistics do indicate that machines are safer overall, and of course safety is VERY critical.

Quoted from...
http://www.cultureofsafety.com/...ht-area-safety/

Two football players were working out at a local fitness center where they were both members. They were both experienced weightlifters and had performed the lifts using the same weights numerous times before. One was using 50 pound dumbbells while the other was stretching on the ground. After he was done with his set he dropped them to the ground.

Unbeknownst to him, his friend?s hand happened to be right below the dumbbells and one of them landed on his left hand severing his left ring finger instantly. The football player who lost his finger was rushed to the emergency room, but doctors where unable to reattach his severed finger due to the amount of trauma to the area. The young man brought suit against the fitness center for negligence and failure to supervise properly. He is seeking over $200,000 in damages.

Statistics...

Injuries from weight lifting have been on the rise steadily due to increased popularity in physical fitness, especially strength training. One of the largest sources of exercise-related injuries is from weight-training. The major causes of injuries from free weights comes from strains or lifting too much, improper lifting techniques, incorrectly secured weights, and dropping, hitting, or pinching oneself or another individual with the weights.

From 1990 to 2007 there were over 970,000 weight training related injuries treated in emergency rooms in the United States.

82% of these injuries were sustained by males.

Youths from the ages of 13 to 24 experienced 47% of the injuries.

90% of all weight lifting injuries came from the use of free weights.


The facility should sue the two "weightlifters" for their blatant SUPIDITY.
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traunsee

I thought everyone would have known this.

Wayne
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sgb2112

traunsee wrote:
I thought everyone would have known this.

Wayne


You would think so, but no, there are still plenty of idiots heaving free weights around until injured.
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Bill Sekerak

California, USA

traunsee wrote:
I thought everyone would have known this.

Wayne


Idiocy and ignorance run rampant in the US today.
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DNAHelix

New York, USA

Dan Davidson wrote:
I'm leaving at 6 am tomorrow for FL to train with Jim Flanagan and Dave Landau. Jim said we were going to do Arthur's "hyper" protocol. I know very little about it but a few people have told me to be afraid....be very afraid.


Dan,

I hear lots of comments from you and from David [Landau] around here. So what is this hyper protocol? What does it look like in terms of exercises, sets, training days per week etc.?

Post this hyper protocol for everyone in here to see and discuss.

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DNAHelix

New York, USA

Crunch gyms in NYC do not have pullover machines. I was told by one of the managers that this is against one of their policies.
Someone got hurt while using a pullover machine, that is why they do not have it.

Gyms in NYC are afraid of law suits, that is why certain equipment is just permanently banned.

Still, how could one get hurt by using a pullover machine? But then again we have idiots who do not even look around when walking or crossing a busy street just because they are looking into their stupid phones all the time.
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iflyboats

Unsupportable theories, nothing more. And IMO a very poor line of inference anyway.
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