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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

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Hitit

Been doing FB HIT for 20 years rotating an A/B type routine with average of 7 exercises every 4 days usually no more that 3 compounds for different muscle groups and the rest are iso's that I rotate for smaller muscles. I've often tried variations of special techniques and have always been in the TTF mind set with the exceptions of trying to not over-extend the sets as of late.

Seems the more I try special techniques the more I find myself in a state of overtraining. For me this equates to feeling muscle deflation, restless sleep and an edgy feeling during the day. When I've taken extra time off when these symptom appear they go away.

For the first time ever I want to try a split routine for variation. Considering my inroad/recovery from the past I want to be careful to not over-train in spite of the idea the splits may lead to that even more. However I'm going to give it a shot for a short bit as a variation and will rotate a A/B type using 3x5's 4/4 and 10/5 rep speeds and possible some zones.

The following is for consideration starting today. Feel free to add or take away and offer any ideas/suggestions as this is not something I've done in over 20 years!

My first framework of variation to start with (may adjust as I go along) of chosen movements are as follows (M,T,F). My goal is to focus on muscle contractions within my normal ranges or TUT and not obsess over complete failure all the time and on every movement (play by feel):

M-Chest/Back:
A) Fly/Pulldown/Incline Chest Press/Pullover (I like this last)

B) Chins/Dips/Seated Row/Fly

Swim 5-10 minutes as a cool down.

T-Legs:
A) Leg Ext/Leg Curl/Leg Press/Calf Press/Seated Back Ext.

B) Leg Ext./Laying Back Ext./Hip Ab/Hip Ad/Single Calf raises

Run 5-10 min Cool down

W-Rest

R-Rest

F-Arms/Shoulders/Abs
A) Tricep/Rev Biceps curl/Lateral raise/Leg raises

B) OH press/Bicep curl/Wrist curls/Seated ab crunch

Swim 5-15 min depending on recovery

S/S-Rest

I would appreciate any positive or negative feedback, thanks.

Brian
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Splits won't lead to overtraining more... improper application of a split routine will. Just consider doing full body every second day and you can see how full body can cause overtraining.

I do a split, and on one of those days I train legs... usually 3-5 exercises total (one set for any one particular exercise, although it could be a cluster set for any one exercise). And so, consider full body twice a week and you perform 3 exercises for legs (leg ext + leg press + leg curl)... done twice a week, that's 6 sets total... more than what I do... and I get 7 days recovery between workouts for the same muscle, whereas you get less than that on full body.

Again, keep the overall volume in check and the quality high, and you will not find doing a split will cause any sense of overtraining.
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Hitit

Brian Johnston wrote:
Splits won't lead to overtraining more... improper application of a split routine will. Just consider doing full body every second day and you can see how full body can cause overtraining.

I do a split, and on one of those days I train legs... usually 3-5 exercises total (one set for any one particular exercise, although it could be a cluster set for any one exercise). And so, consider full body twice a week and you perform 3 exercises for legs (leg ext + leg press + leg curl)... done twice a week, that's 6 sets total... more than what I do... and I get 7 days recovery between workouts for the same muscle, whereas you get less than that on full body.

Again, keep the overall volume in check and the quality high, and you will not find doing a split will cause any sense of overtraining.


That was my goal with this in mind so I appreciate the input.

I looked at my normal overall FB and was doing approx. 14 exercises every week. Now will be doing 12 and as you said I will have a week between major muscles groups for recovery.

My biggest issue I think is usually systematic recovery. I will be trying to address that with my intensity and shorter timed workouts now.
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natemason5

Ontario, CAN

I'm not a big fan of doing Chest and Back together...I find it way too draining on the system. Right now I'm enjoying the following routine, which would work well with your 3x5 for the basic lifts.

A-Chest/Tricep
Bench Press
Incline DB press
DB flyes
Tricep Ext.
CGBP

B-Legs/Bicep
Squats
Lunges/Calves
BBcurl
DBhammer curls
Chins

C-Back/Shoulders
Deadlift
Pulldown/Pullover
Bent BBrows
DB lateral raises
OHP

I wanted to focus on Squats, Deadlift, and Bench Press, so those first lifts are the main focus (at least for me). I've found that the above workouts haven't drained me as much as reaching failure on every set. It took a little while to retrain myself to not take each set to failure. Each workout only lasts around 30 minutes...with 1-2 minutes between sets...sometime less time between sets if I'm supersetting some of the "in-between" exercises. I like the idea of improvising some of the workout, depending on how I'm feeling that day, but still keeping the basic lifts in there.

After going to failure for so long, I think you'll enjoy the break from it. I feel it more in the target muscle, than in the entire body, with this routine.

Nate
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Hitit

Thanks Nate, good to hear from you and some good points I'd not thought of.

I will definitely take a look to see how I feel with the chest and back together. And since I'm hitting that today I should get a good feel soon enough.

And yes, it will be strange to more away from the TTF mind set but as you mentioned, I'm looking forward to seeing if I can get a better feel in the target muscles to focus on more hypertrophy.

I do however still plan on using minimal rest between sets and only doing 1 set per exercise (not including clusters or zones).

Appreciate your input.

What are your workout/rest days look like?

Brian
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

I never found Chest & Back too draining. It fit well with my push-pull training model for some time.

I even did legs on Chest/Back day, though they were usualy only 2 non-compound movements (CRs, Leg Ext, Hip ADd, Tibia, etc.).

Scott
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Hitit

simon-hecubus wrote:
I never found Chest & Back too draining. It fit well with my push-pull training model for some time.

I even did legs on Chest/Back day, though they were usualy only 2 non-compound movements (CRs, Leg Ext, Hip ADd, Tibia, etc.).

Scott


Good to hear!
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Hitit

Chest/Back today:

Fly - 3/3 speed brief hold in the contraction 9 reps

Hammer High Row (I call pulldown) - 3x6

Incline Press - 3x5

Pullover - 5/5 speed brief contraction 8 reps

Very good fullness and pump afterwards, felt good.

About a 5 minute swim was plenty afterwards and then I began to really feel the muscle fatigue.

Took all the sets to about failure which means I didn't push past where I knew was my last rep. When I hit that I lowered the weight (neg) in a controlled but not emphasized manner.

Feel a little shaky upper body, very good pump and a much more thorough sense of my muscles being worked then when doing the FB. Probably because I'm doing (2) different exercises per these muscle groups as apposed to (1) SET before.

Looking forward (a little) to tomorrow's workout. I feel it will be a good kicker for the legs that I'm not used to.

In fact, I don't know why I picked Tuesday now for legs but I think I will move it to Wednesdays.

Wish me luck!
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HeavyHitter32

Doing chest and back together is obviously more demanding than focusing on just one large group per session, but I do like training both together at the same time for periods of time (I do switch back and forth between this and the push/pull/legs split). There's a certain training presence from it. The key is not focusing on too many moves in one session (especially compounds). This works well too because my arms still get a little stimulation then really get hit hard in the delt/arm session. My arms are a weaker point and seem to recover fast, so getting some direct and indirect work within a 7-9 day period helps.
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Hitit

HeavyHitter32 wrote:
Doing chest and back together is obviously more demanding than focusing on just one large group per session, but I do like training both together at the same time for periods of time (I do switch back and forth between this and the push/pull/legs split). There's a certain training presence from it. The key is not focusing on too many moves in one session (especially compounds). This works well too because my arms still get a little stimulation then really get hit hard in the delt/arm session. My arms are a weaker point and seem to recover fast, so getting some direct and indirect work within a 7-9 day period helps.


So far I feel the same especially with the arms which is why I liked the carry over workout on Friday to bridge the days until the chest and back again.

I will probably try and push/pull/legs type split too as I'm really trying to throw everything at my muscles now that I can to see what happens. I am already enjoying the variety.

Especially since I've been doing mostly the same stuff with the exception of different machines for years.
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

HeavyHitter32 wrote:
Doing chest and back together is obviously more demanding... The key is not focusing on too many moves in one session (especially compounds). This works well too because my arms still get a little stimulation then really get hit hard in the delt/arm session. My arms are a weaker point and seem to recover fast, so getting some direct and indirect work within a 7-9 day period helps.


I've said it many times: My arms never did very well on a trad* Push/Pull split, but experienced quite the growth spurt when I got into the Chest/Back & Delts/Arms approach to upper body.

HH is right-on as to the reasons: 1) Ability to Focus on arms and hit them fresh and 2) Increased Frequency.

As I moved forward in this approach, I had to learn to temper the approach that I applied to Delts and Forearms. I had to move the forearms to Chest/Back day (i.e. LOWER their frequency) for best growth. With delts, I had to be careful of RC issues.

Scott
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Hitit

Nice pump today upper body, and some good soreness in the lats and pecs, both more than I'm used to so that feels good. Slightly less pump/soreness in the delts and arms/abs (but there) which I expected.

I had a bit of a restless sleep last night, not sure if its from the stress of the workout but I'll be switching the pullover for the row now.

I don't care for the PO movement very much and how it "feels" on my body and found it more demanding hitting my chest and tri (even abs but that ok) quite a bit after the Incline Press which I think I don't need more work on, especially back to back. I wanted the PO last because I wanted to be tired when I go there to use less weight and less strain on how it feels. But for now I'll go to rows.

Dropping this will take away a little more away from the pec/tri work for better recovery. ANd since I'm hitting the bi/tri/delt in a simple 1 exercise workout on Friday I think so far so good.
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Hitit

simon-hecubus wrote:
HeavyHitter32 wrote:
Doing chest and back together is obviously more demanding... The key is not focusing on too many moves in one session (especially compounds). This works well too because my arms still get a little stimulation then really get hit hard in the delt/arm session. My arms are a weaker point and seem to recover fast, so getting some direct and indirect work within a 7-9 day period helps.

I've said it many times: My arms never did very well on a trad* Push/Pull split, but experienced quite the growth spurt when I got into the Chest/Back & Delts/Arms approach to upper body.

HH is right-on as to the reasons: 1) Ability to Focus on arms and hit them fresh and 2) Increased Frequency.

As I moved forward in this approach, I had to learn to temper the approach that I applied to Delts and Forearms. I had to move the forearms to Chest/Back day (i.e. LOWER their frequency) for best growth. With delts, I had to be careful of RC issues.

Scott


Yea Scott I feel similar (for now as I move forward) except I don't have the issue I think with the FT forearms. RC can be something to watch and I'm hoping that only doing the one shoulder movement on Fridays will address that nicely getting some stimulation but not too much.

This is very different for me but I like the idea of the frequency thus far as well.

Brian
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Hitit wrote:
Yea Scott I feel similar (for now as I move forward) except I don't have the issue I think with the FT forearms. RC can be something to watch and I'm hoping that only doing the one shoulder movement on Fridays will address that nicely getting some stimulation but not too much...
Brian


The whole reason I mentioned was that was to reinforce that cookie-cutter routines or splits will only go so far.

Thoughtful trainees must strive to discover what works, why it's working (or not), and workable alternatives.

Then when those things stop working, they need to have contigencies in place too...
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Hitit

simon-hecubus wrote:
Hitit wrote:
Yea Scott I feel similar (for now as I move forward) except I don't have the issue I think with the FT forearms. RC can be something to watch and I'm hoping that only doing the one shoulder movement on Fridays will address that nicely getting some stimulation but not too much...
Brian

The whole reason I mentioned was that was to reinforce that cookie-cutter routines or splits will only go so far.

Thiughtful trainees must strive to discover what works, why it's working (or not), and workable alternatives.


Gotcha thanks. I plan on using allot of variations and variety so as to discover more for myself. I'm more "outside the box" now than I've ever been.


Brian
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natemason5

Ontario, CAN

Hitit wrote:
Thanks Nate, good to hear from you and some good points I'd not thought of.

I will definitely take a look to see how I feel with the chest and back together. And since I'm hitting that today I should get a good feel soon enough.

And yes, it will be strange to more away from the TTF mind set but as you mentioned, I'm looking forward to seeing if I can get a better feel in the target muscles to focus on more hypertrophy.

I do however still plan on using minimal rest between sets and only doing 1 set per exercise (not including clusters or zones).

Appreciate your input.

What are your workout/rest days look like?

Brian


I'm way too busy with a young family to give anyone advice on what a "regular" day looks like...at least right now. Right now I'm just trying not to injure myself...seems my shoulders and spine have taken a beating over the years. The intensity can't be too high, so my volume has increased by necessity. I've been forced to think about how I can use less weight, but stimulate the target muscle...it's been nice to be honest. I don't record my workouts rep by rep anymore...and that created a freedom that I enjoy. I'm not focused soley on strength increases anymore, and I've found I get more enjoyment from my workouts now.


Probably just a nice change of pace.

Sounds like you're enjoying the freedom.

Nate
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Hitit

Thanks Nate, I was really wondering how often you're working out but I suppose that changes with your home life.

Yes I'm enjoying the "freedom". Not only physically but also mentally.

There is something to be said by being open and trying new things outside of what you're used to, physically and mentally. I was not so open in the past so it is good for me emotionally too.

My new motto:

"Free your mind"

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natemason5

Ontario, CAN

Oh...I try to weight train 3 times per week. Sometimes less, never more.

Nate
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Hitit

natemason5 wrote:
Oh...I try to weight train 3 times per week. Sometimes less, never more.

Nate


Thanks.
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Hitit

Legs today:

LE 3x5
LC 3/3 speed - 11 reps
LP 4/4 speed - 9 reps
CP 4/4 speed - 10 reps
SBE 4/4 speed - 11 reps

Nothing fancy as I wanted to just get a feel for this but next workout I plan to throw in some more 3x5s and 30/30/30 again.

Decent pump afterwards and actually felt I had more in the tank when done. Did 5 minute cool down on the elliptical. Less wiped out than I was from Mondays chest/back wo.

Still good fullness upper body and had a great night sleep last night so onward to Fridays workout which I am looking forward to.
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Hitit

Not too sore from yesterdays WO although good fullness in the legs and sore in the gluts. As I said I felt I had more in the tank afterwards even though I did push good intensity on the sets. I wish I could do DL and Squats but cannot due to my back.

I think the shorter WO's may be helping to not over stress my body and I had a very good night's sleep again.

Still nice fuller feeling in the upper body and can see it in the mirror. Still slightly sore in the chest and a little more in the lats. Which after my initial workout was the opposite.

The slight soreness I had in the shoulders/arms/abs is almost completely gone so I feel good to be on track for tomorrow's simple shoulder/arms/ab WO.

SO far I really like.
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Hitit wrote:
...My new motto:

"Free your mind"


Never took you for an En Vogue fan!
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Hitit

simon-hecubus wrote:
Hitit wrote:
...My new motto:

"Free your mind"

Never took you for an En Vogue fan!


"The Matrix" movie.......haha
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natemason5

Ontario, CAN

I think he means this...

http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=i7iQbBbMAFE

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Hitit

Right Nate, ha-ha.

And I meant this...

http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=Jtz4Tzr9WJk
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