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I was re-reading an old Arthur Jones article tonight. He mentioned he was going to make a Leg and Back machine. This would be in addition to the hip and back and leg extension machine. It even appears on a very early price list as the most expensive machine. To my knowledge it was never produced.
However I was wondering if anyone on the forum knows what was the idea for the machine?
Michael
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Michael Petrella wrote:
I was re-reading an old Arthur Jones article tonight. He mentioned he was going to make a Leg and Back machine. This would be in addition to the hip and back and leg extension machine. It even appears on a very early price list as the most expensive machine. To my knowledge it was never produced.
However I was wondering if anyone on the forum knows what was the idea for the machine?
Michael
"why not restrain the thighs?" a line from an Iron Man article by Jones at the time.
I believe it was a combination leg extension with "low back machine", a "rotary squat". Thighs would be fixed as on a leg extension, and you would straighten the knees while driving the torso in line with the thighs.
Other than the Iron Man article from the early '70s, I hadn't read or seen anything else on this.
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Michael Petrella wrote:
I was re-reading an old Arthur Jones article tonight. He mentioned he was going to make a Leg and Back machine. This would be in addition to the hip and back and leg extension machine. It even appears on a very early price list as the most expensive machine. To my knowledge it was never produced.
However I was wondering if anyone on the forum knows what was the idea for the machine?
Michael
Mr.Petrella,
It appears that RenEx made the closest thing to that.
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I talked with AJ several times about this machine. He said it was one of the few machine concepts that, if he actually built the machine, the movement properly performed for 12 repetitions would be "too intense."
Evidently, AJ had enough of the machine together in the prototype shop to experiment with it to some degree.
Ellington
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jitterbug wrote:
Mr.Petrella,
It appears that RenEx made the closest thing to that.
No wonder Jones never bothered to make one!
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Along the lines of what I imagine that Dr.Darden just described with two movement-arms from two different stacks, I always wondered how exciting it would be to have a properly-designed machine for the abdominals whereupon the torso is loaded from a movement-arm from "a sit-up position" with the legs of the trainee spread apart, but loaded from a movement-arm that moves similar to hips-flexion, again, from a separate weight-stack. Dr.Darden has in the past described such an exercise, albeit without the aid of a machine, just holding a weight-plate or two, at most.
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jitterbug wrote:
Michael Petrella wrote:
I was re-reading an old Arthur Jones article tonight. He mentioned he was going to make a Leg and Back machine. This would be in addition to the hip and back and leg extension machine. It even appears on a very early price list as the most expensive machine. To my knowledge it was never produced.
However I was wondering if anyone on the forum knows what was the idea for the machine?
Michael
Mr.Petrella,
It appears that RenEx made the closest thing to that.
Are you referring to their low back machine?
Michael
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Ellington Darden wrote:
I talked with AJ several times about this machine. He said it was one of the few machine concepts that, if he actually built the machine, the movement properly performed for 12 repetitions would be "too intense."
Evidently, AJ had enough of the machine together in the prototype shop to experiment with it to some degree.
Ellington
Thanks for the insight Dr. Darden.
Michael
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Ellington Darden wrote:
I talked with AJ several times about this machine. He said it was one of the few machine concepts that, if he actually built the machine, the movement properly performed for 12 repetitions would be "too intense."
Evidently, AJ had enough of the machine together in the prototype shop to experiment with it to some degree.
Ellington
Ellington, are you doing a thigh extension and doing a lower back movement at the same time ?
Something like a Next Generation Lower Back machine with a thigh extension on the front of it ?
I have done seated thigh extensions while almost having my back horizontal when having to use one of the leg curl - thigh extension dual purpose efforts. I have used this method to effect the middle to lower quads when leaning back in this way.
If I am thinking this out correctly,two full ROM movements simultaneously performed would give great upper vastus hit to the quads as well as full frontal quad stimulus with hams and lower back.
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Yes, a leg extension and a lower-back extension at the same time.
Ellington
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Ellington Darden wrote:
Yes, a leg extension and a lower-back extension at the same time.
Ellington
When you think about it, it's almost like a gripless deadlift machine. That would have been something else.
Michael
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Michael,
Thanks for bringing up this thread. I read that years ago and always wondered
what that machine was, and what it might look like.
Scott
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I was just talking with a good friend of mine. It would actually be quite easy to build using existing Nautilus machines/parts. I'll see if I can get a hold of a cad program and design it so people could see. If anyone wanted to they could build one. Both my friend and I are thinking it's not a good idea though. lol.
Michael
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davise wrote:
If you added a back extension to this it would seem like this is what it would look like...use your imagination on the back extension piece
http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=ZBA3xTswBhs
Yep that's pretty much how I have it figured out in my mind. With a back pad of course.
Michael
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I always preferred leg extensions lying back (you can feel it right up to the hips), which is how I did them years ago on my crappy equipment. You can't do that these days, with the back attachments. However, at the very least, you can recline the back rest as much as possible and lay back about 45-degrees give or take.
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Ellington Darden wrote:
Yes, a leg extension and a lower-back extension at the same time.
Ellington
Thanks Ellington and thanks Michael for the thread and sorry to all for banging on about this but here goes again.
I am now seeing the machine having a single arm back roller pad identical to the movement arm on the super geared hip and back, sitting just below the shoulders on your back as you sit upright on the machine ?
The machine would be long in length to handle all the chains running to the rear of the machine or a stack at the front and one at the back ?
The seat would be at the height of a super thigh extension which would be used without having it's back board, this all coupled up to a (reversed action) hip and back machine type set up ?
Another question I have is about the Omni Back (never made) ?
Was it a pullover with the foot bar nearer you or regeared to bring the movement arm all the way round and into the stomach before the start of the negative ?
I know I should have asked you all this back in 2007 in Longwood.
Don
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Spidercam wrote:
Ellington Darden wrote:
Yes, a leg extension and a lower-back extension at the same time.
Ellington
Thanks Ellington and thanks Michael for the thread and sorry to all for banging on about this but here goes again.
I am now seeing the machine having a single arm back roller pad identical to the movement arm on the super geared hip and back, sitting just below the shoulders on your back as you sit upright on the machine ?
The machine would be long in length to handle all the chains running to the rear of the machine or a stack at the front and one at the back ?
The seat would be at the height of a super thigh extension which would be used without having it's back board, this all coupled up to a (reversed action) hip and back machine type set up ?
Another question I have is about the Omni Back (never made) ?
Was it a pullover with the foot bar nearer you or regeared to bring the movement arm all the way round and into the stomach before the start of the negative ?
I know I should have asked you all this back in 2007 in Longwood.
Don
We will have to talk soon Don. I have a far easier way of building one. 90% of it would come from existing Nautilus parts. Im not sure I have the time or even if it's a good idea but I am confident it could be built.
Michael
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Hi Michael
Are you thinking along the lines of single sided movement arms as in Next Gen machines or maybe a mix of Gen 2 thighx with Next Gen Lower Back.
The harder route would be to go for bilateral symmetry, the way I picture the original concept with the $5680 price tag.
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Tread carefully... such a machine will impose significant gluteal contractions... and if you've ever felt low back pain due to gluteal spasm... you won't want to experience it a second time!
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Michael Petrella wrote:
davise wrote:
If you added a back extension to this it would seem like this is what it would look like...use your imagination on the back extension piece
http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=ZBA3xTswBhs
Yep that's pretty much how I have it figured out in my mind. With a back pad of course.
Michael
Hmm I roughed it. Looks ugly!
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Brian Johnston wrote:
Tread carefully... such a machine will impose significant gluteal contractions... and if you've ever felt low back pain due to gluteal spasm... you won't want to experience it a second time!
I wouldn't touch such a machines with a 10 foot Pole or even a 15 foot Hungarian for that matter.....
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It seems like it would be easier to build a machine like this in which you could do TSC. If that proved to be effective then you could think about a dynamic version.
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Acerimmer1 wrote:
Michael Petrella wrote:
davise wrote:
If you added a back extension to this it would seem like this is what it would look like...use your imagination on the back extension piece
http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=ZBA3xTswBhs
Yep that's pretty much how I have it figured out in my mind. With a back pad of course.
Michael
Hmm I roughed it. Looks ugly!
I had envisioned it different but I see where you are going with it. I am not a mechanical engineer but I'd imagine it would be very difficult to run both movement arms off the same drive system. Also trying to figure out an appropriate strength curve based on both joints would be challenging.
Did you use a CAD program to make that picture?
Michael
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