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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
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must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Why a 1,000 pound squat when few people on earth are capable of that? How about something more basic and simplistic: how many people on this board have noticed an increase in lifting ability (there is a difference between lifting ability and strength, in case you don't know that) without any improvement in appearance?

I have increased various exercises upward of 50% without any increase in appearance or muscle size. I even increased on a squat machine 100% without any change in measurement or appearance in my thighs (the dynamics of the machine allowed me to use progressively more butt).
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Muscle mass never can keep up with the ability to improve lifting coordination; if it did we would see continual growth every time we add a rep or a few pounds to the bar... right? This is basic 101 exercise. This is why you find people who can move heavy furniture very well without adding muscle mass (they learn to use leverage to increase lifting ability and the nervous system and muscles works accordingly, and people who lift weights are no different... we're not a different species).

Thus, to suggest something as exaggerated as a 1,000 pound squat necessitates your grey matter to come back down to earth.

How about this: let's say your max squat is 400 pounds for a single. Now, do you think that you can increase your lifting ability to reach that 400 pounds without adding muscle mass? Well, does that not depend on where you are in your lifting career, e.g., right now you can squat only 200 pounds vs. 350 pounds?

If you can squat only 200 pounds for a single, and you continue to squat over the years, obviously you're going to build more muscle since you're far from your peak (presuming you are bodybuilding and not doing heavy powerlifting, the latter of which doesn't do a lot for muscle mass... it does 'some,' but nothing like bodybuilding application).

But if you are closer to 350 pounds for a single, then you're not far off from your maximum potential, and that could very much result in the ability to add 50 pounds to your max squat ability without added muscle. And if you think not, then go back to my previous post:

Has anyone on this board achieved an increase in lifting ability without a concomitant increase in muscle mass? Of course... EVERYONE! Heck, when I was on Mentzer's consolidation (and Mike gave me direct instruction through those two years), my 'lifting ability' increased considerably on a handful of basic exercises and I LOST muscle development... lost about 8 pounds of muscle while increasing my fat stores (I ate the same, but lifted only once every 10-14 days).

Lack of sufficient bodybuilding application, yet I was able to lift a lot more on a group of exercises. Deconditioning of the system and loss of muscle fullness... replaced with greater lifting ability.

I know of several on this board who experienced the exact same thing. And so... yes... one can improve lifting ability and force output without adding muscle (and while losing muscle in the process!).
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Brian Johnston wrote:
Why a 1,000 pound squat when few people on earth are capable of that? How about something more basic and simplistic: how many people on this board have noticed an increase in lifting ability (there is a difference between lifting ability and strength, in case you don't know that) without any improvement in appearance?


Answer: Everybody at one point or another, including the ones arguing against this fact the loudest.
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Tomislav

New York, USA

Brian Johnston wrote:
Muscle mass never can keep up with the ability to improve lifting coordination; if it did we would see continual growth every time we add a rep or a few pounds to the bar... right?

It depends on the exercise; going from 150 to 160 lbs in skull crushers resulted in noticeably bigger triceps that were already big.

Adding 10 lbs to a heavy press or squat, isn't so noticeable but the size increase is still there; Mr Strong's example mirrors Mr Jones - it's hard to find an athlete squatting 400x20 who hasn't built big wheels, at least not unless their rounding their back and bouncing out of the bottom (and furniture movers focus on the transition to bone support - not much growth stimulation there).


Has anyone on this board achieved an increase in lifting ability without a concomitant increase in muscle mass? Of course... EVERYONE!


Disagree, there is a always a correlation with size and strength at the individual level.

Heck, when I was on Mentzer's consolidation (and Mike gave me direct instruction through those two years), my 'lifting ability' increased considerably on a handful of basic exercises and I LOST muscle development... lost about 8 pounds of muscle while increasing my fat stores (I ate the same, but lifted only once every 10-14 days).

I've been using a CT routine for 24 years now; 7-10 days works great at the advanced level but without iso's for the arms athletes see a size loss over other training modalities - people tend to gauge their physique on arm development (classic Jones again).

Lack of sufficient bodybuilding application, yet I was able to lift a lot more on a group of exercises. Deconditioning of the system and loss of muscle fullness... replaced with greater lifting ability.

I know of several on this board who experienced the exact same thing. And so... yes... one can improve lifting ability and force output without adding muscle (and while losing muscle in the process!).


Yes many athletes attest to losing size while getting stronger and they also confuse being leaner and thus appearing to have larger muscles, with having larger muscles.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

With what micro tool do you measure that size increase to KNOW that it is there?
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

You're wrong as usual... there is never always a correlation between strength and size. In fact, there is not a correlation between strength (force output of an individual muscle) and lifting ability, via coordinated neuromuscular adaptation. This has been known for decades for god's sake! Jones even stated that a larger muscle is a stronger muscle, but never that muscle mass would increase automatically just because you can lift a bit more weight.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Tomislav wrote:
Yes many athletes attest to losing size while getting stronger and they also confuse being leaner and thus appearing to have larger muscles, with having larger muscles.


Certainly... and some equate to putting on fat as to having larger muscles... that nice security blanket of tissue rounding things up is great for the ego.
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Mr. Strong

Brian Johnston wrote:
Why a 1,000 pound squat when few people on earth are capable of that? How about something more basic and simplistic: how many people on this board have noticed an increase in lifting ability (there is a difference between lifting ability and strength, in case you don't know that) without any improvement in appearance?

I have increased various exercises upward of 50% without any increase in appearance or muscle size. I even increased on a squat machine 100% without any change in measurement or appearance in my thighs (the dynamics of the machine allowed me to use progressively more butt).


You didn't really answer the question I actually asked.

In your example you changed the performance of the squat to allow for more weight. In my post I said perfect form.

Could you go from 10 bw pull ups with perfect from to 10 pull ups with 300kg in addition to bw with perfect form without getting bigger?
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Tomislav wrote:
I've been using a CT routine for 24 years now; 7-10 days works great at the advanced level but without iso's for the arms athletes see a size loss over other training modalities - people tend to gauge their physique on arm development (classic Jones again).


Sorry, Tomi... but my whole body suffered. I lost lat width, chest thickness, shoulder roundness and even thigh fullness (although I was squatting more weight than ever, but with a different approach... more weight meant nothing compared to actual 'bodybuilding' training... I know that's hard for some to grasp since they seem to be into bodybuilding for appearance sake, but are hung up on powerlifting style training).
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

And you are ignoring what I'm stating. Nonetheless, rarely (likely never) have I seen anyone perform a squat whereby the last rep looked like the first rep. Therefore, what is perfect form? As fatigue sets in the butt automatically will shift out as the body leans forward. It's the nature of exercise and the effect fatigue has on the body in this exercise. And so, explain perfect form based on that.
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farhad

Massachusetts, USA

Brian Johnston wrote:
You're wrong as usual... there is never always a correlation between strength and size. In fact, there is not a correlation between strength (force output of an individual muscle) and lifting ability, via coordinated neuromuscular adaptation. This has been known for decades for god's sake! Jones even stated that a larger muscle is a stronger muscle, but never that muscle mass would increase automatically just because you can lift a bit more weight.



Agreed. I will post this again for Mr. Strong:

http://www.T-Nation.com/...an_powerlifters


"In Neuromechanics of Human Movement, Roger Enoka (Enoka, 2008) lists eight potential neurological areas for non-hypertrophy related strength gains:

-Enhanced output from supraspinal centers as suggested by findings with imagined contractions
-Reduced coactivation of antagonist muscles
-Greater activation of agonist and synergist muscles
-Enhanced coupling of spinal interneurons that produces cross-education
-Changes in descending drive that reduce the bilateral deficit
-Shared input to motor neurons that increases motor unit synchronization
-Greater muscle activation (EMG)
-Heightened excitability and altered connections into motor neurons

Of all of these adaptations, basic coordination between the muscles is the single greatest contributor to non-hypertrophy related strength gains. Along with neurological adaptations, adaptations involving increased stiffness in the tissues that connect from bone to bone (including tendons, extracellular matrix, etc.) can lead to increased force transmission from muscle to bone, and play a significant role in increased strength gains."
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Seriousstrength

New York, USA

Brian Johnston wrote:
Fred is talking about adapting to the point that more weight is required... I'm talking about intra- and extra-muscular coordination when it comes to strength, and muscle simply not coming forth because of the 'routine' of the routine. Why should a muscle get larger when it simply needs to figure out ways intra- and extra-muscularly insofar as coordinating the nervous and muscular systems to become MORE PROFICIENT lifting loads in the same ways and with the same exercises? Or did Dr. Darden write all those books on program variations and methods of performance for the fun of it?


***I am talking about the science behind the idea of variation. Just because we talk about it and claim that it is a requirement doesn't make it a requirement.

The idea that one becomes more and more and more and more proficient at an exercise is, in my opinion, unfounded. You don't only stimulate muscle growth in an exercise you are NOT proficient in.

Show me the science or offer a logical physiological argument that indicates variation is required to grow muscle to one's genetic potential.

Even Zatsiorsky said that hypertrophy he didn't know.
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Seriousstrength

New York, USA

Brian Johnston wrote:
Tomislav wrote:
I've been using a CT routine for 24 years now; 7-10 days works great at the advanced level but without iso's for the arms athletes see a size loss over other training modalities - people tend to gauge their physique on arm development (classic Jones again).


Sorry, Tomi... but my whole body suffered. I lost lat width, chest thickness, shoulder roundness and even thigh fullness (although I was squatting more weight than ever, but with a different approach... more weight meant nothing compared to actual 'bodybuilding' training... I know that's hard for some to grasp since they seem to be into bodybuilding for appearance sake, but are hung up on powerlifting style training).


****It's actually simple to grasp but you have no evidence to show for this - or do you?

And still - no pictures of your current development.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Learn how to take a clear photo, Fred, and don't worry about me. I'm working on a new book with DVD and I'll have photos at that time.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Seriousstrength wrote:
Even Zatsiorsky said that hypertrophy he didn't know.


The same guy who claimed you had to do 2 hour bodybuilding routines of the stars in California to realize full muscular development. Great source, Einstein.

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Mr. Strong

Brian Johnston wrote:
And you are ignoring what I'm stating. Nonetheless, rarely (likely never) have I seen anyone perform a squat whereby the last rep looked like the first rep. Therefore, what is perfect form? As fatigue sets in the butt automatically will shift out as the body leans forward. It's the nature of exercise and the effect fatigue has on the body in this exercise. And so, explain perfect form based on that.


Every rep I do in a set is the same. I don't sacrifice form or control for more reps or weight.

If you start leaning forward more as the set continues then your technique is poor with a lack of control over the muscles and movement.

35 years experience and you think that's correct squatting form?
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Mr. Strong

Farhad, here is my question if you want another go at it.

Could you go from 10 bw pull ups with perfect from to 10 pull ups with 300kg in addition to bw with perfect form without getting bigger?
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Tomislav

New York, USA

Brian Johnston wrote:
Tomislav wrote:
Yes many athletes attest to losing size while getting stronger and they also confuse being leaner and thus appearing to have larger muscles, with having larger muscles.


Certainly... and some equate to putting on fat as to having larger muscles... that nice security blanket of tissue rounding things up is great for the ego.


This is true but I think the free body moves can help athletes with a reality check if they are putting on too much fat while I see no counter mechanism to stop athletes pursuing increasing leanness from losing size as for awhile, they look better for it having also lost fat.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

I would love to see a video of you, taken from the side, demonstrating how you maintain the exact same form from beginning to end. Or do you do just one rep, lol? Otherwise, you're full of BS... I've never seen it with anyone. The quads fatigue and the body automatically will adjust itself.

This is true even with a Smith machine or Zane leg blaster. The only other explanation is that you have a 12" torso or you don't squat very hard at all (and will never achieve your 1,000 pounds squat). Then again, you're a high school stupid making all kinds of claims.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

This is as stupid as it gets. Who is saying that no muscle would be developed as you increased weights or reps. Who? I'm talking about a constant increase in mass with that constant increase in PERFORMANCE... I'm talking about experiencing times (in weeks or even months) of not even looking any different, yet improving PERFORMANCE.

It's amazing how ideas or concepts are twisted around on this board to create rebuttals to arguments that never existed in the first place. Hey, Mr. Strong... what if a person where to chin with a zillion pounds around his waist... can you imagine the lats? Or how about two zillion!!! Duh!
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Tomislav

New York, USA

Mr. Strong wrote:
Brian Johnston wrote:
And you are ignoring what I'm stating. Nonetheless, rarely (likely never) have I seen anyone perform a squat whereby the last rep looked like the first rep. Therefore, what is perfect form? As fatigue sets in the butt automatically will shift out as the body leans forward. It's the nature of exercise and the effect fatigue has on the body in this exercise. And so, explain perfect form based on that.

Every rep I do in a set is the same. I don't sacrifice form or control for more reps or weight.

If you start leaning forward more as the set continues then your technique is poor with a lack of control over the muscles and movement.

35 years experience and you think that's correct squatting form?


Excellent points Brian and Mr Strong,
I train primarily for power sports and IMO turnup thighs break on the field for lack of reinforcement about the knee and they don't improve explosive dashes nearly as much as thicker thighs but then Hatfield only trained for the anyhow parallel squat which invariably becomes a butt lift.

When I squat every rep is the same in a straight line, but I also quit with a few perfect form reps left in the tank.

That video of Platz squatting 500x23 deep in a perfect straight line shows him throwing in the towel as soon as he breaks form just slightly; it probably would have cost him some size, but could he have avoided injuries by stopping a couple of reps before that?
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Seriousstrength

New York, USA

"Why a 1,000 pound squat when few people on earth are capable of that?"

***A nice round number.

***How about something more basic and simplistic: how many people on this board have noticed an increase in lifting ability (there is a difference between lifting ability and strength, in case you don't know that) without any improvement in appearance?

****Define the difference specifically.

"I have increased various exercises upward of 50% without any increase in appearance or muscle size. I even increased on a squat machine 100% without any change in measurement or appearance in my thighs (the dynamics of the machine allowed me to use progressively more butt)."

****I've said this a billion times and I'll say it again - you have to find out what you CAN'T do on a particular exercise first. THEN back off the load until 4 or 5 complete reps are possible till failure. THEN microload form there. It is all too easy to underload your muscles. I have noticed that clients can use in some exercises 60+ pounds more or less for the EXACT same time to fialure.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

A person can get hurt even on a warm-up set if done too explosively or ballistically. Platz' injuries were the result of bouncing. If he were to lower under control and stop for a half-second or a second before ascending, guaranteed he would not have done as many reps with as much weight and his form would have broken a lot faster.

Not only that, but the video CLEARLY shows him from the front and NOT the side... and so it is difficult to see any change in form that did occur. Regardless, we're talking about Platz... one individual (whose name keeps cropping up for unknown reasons since he does not represent anyone but himself).
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Seriousstrength

New York, USA

Brian Johnston wrote:
Seriousstrength wrote:
Even Zatsiorsky said that hypertrophy he didn't know.

The same guy who claimed you had to do 2 hour bodybuilding routines of the stars in California to realize full muscular development. Great source, Einstein.



****You know Brian, your incessant childish retorts are just tiresome. Who can take you seriously talking as you do? You're 50 freaking years old Brian.

I mention him because he is usually quoted as a credible resource. And if you'd have read his works, you'd know he supports variation for building strength though he cites no refernece to support his opinions.
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Seriousstrength

New York, USA

Brian Johnston wrote:
Learn how to take a clear photo, Fred, and don't worry about me. I'm working on a new book with DVD and I'll have photos at that time.


****No, forget about me and let's see a pic of YOU now at 5'9" and weighing a LEAN 210. Abs visible. Why wait till your new book and DVD?
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