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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
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must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

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X-Force and Muscle Gain
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Bill De Simone

New Jersey, USA

Bill De Simone wrote:
British bodybuilder and Soul Music Authority Mark Houghton just visited Main Line Health & Fitness to train on X-Force. Hopefully Roger got some video and Mark will share his impressions.


https://www.dropbox.com/...4%2039%20PM.mov

Another video from MLHF, this time Victor Martinez, another bodybuilder/happy customer
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Bill, based on the sensors in the machine, let's consider working the leg press in halves:

If you were to pause at the bottom half for a solid second, then lift for 2-3 seconds (half-way up) and then pause for a solid second before lowering again, would that not be 'easy' on the sensors and allow for different movement patterns (including stutters or 1 1/2 reps, etc.)? Of course, after doing some work in the bottom half you would do the same in the top half.

It sounds like the machines can do this, but it would require sufficient discipline on the part of the user to make certain there is a 'dead' stop at every point and not to bugger up the electronics (or your body).

I would be interested to hear if you decide to experiment with patterns, although once you think you no longer are gaining benefit (muscle mass is not improving) through the full ROM conventional means. Thanks.
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cmg

Tomislav wrote:
cmg wrote:
Sorry but those are not what I would call squats. Can that develop anything? I have trained in gyms for many years - those are poorly done. I don't mean to be a jerk by any means but why not use less weight and do them to parallel? Is it just to use BIG weight? Do you believe just bending your knees is more effective than full squats? I used to squat and would go over 500lbs but would make sure I did parallel or would not consider it a squat....
I believe in this case, as with most, better to use a lighter weight and swallow your pride - you would get better results. You could do the same with any exercise - very small ROM and much bigger weights (bounce a bar off your chest in the bench..).

Regards,

Ron

Awesome bro post! Ever tire of armchair quarterbacking?



Tomi -

You're a very odd guy.. You write extensively about the positives of getting fat and show video of you doing an exercise that looks ridiculous. Where most on this board are getting a little older and want to stay fairly lean and do an exercise in good form - you're exactly the opposite. Very odd my friend.

Regards,

Ron
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Bill De Simone

New Jersey, USA

Brian Johnston wrote:
Bill, based on the sensors in the machine, let's consider working the leg press in halves:

If you were to pause at the bottom half for a solid second, then lift for 2-3 seconds (half-way up) and then pause for a solid second before lowering again, would that not be 'easy' on the sensors and allow for different movement patterns (including stutters or 1 1/2 reps, etc.)? Of course, after doing some work in the bottom half you would do the same in the top half.

It sounds like the machines can do this, but it would require sufficient discipline on the part of the user to make certain there is a 'dead' stop at every point and not to bugger up the electronics (or your body).

I would be interested to hear if you decide to experiment with patterns, although once you think you no longer are gaining benefit (muscle mass is not improving) through the full ROM conventional means. Thanks.


May work on some of the bigger range movements, like leg press, row, etc.
Come to Pennsylvania and try it!
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cmg

Mr. Strong wrote:
cmg wrote:
Sorry but those are not what I would call squats. Can that develop anything? I have trained in gyms for many years - those are poorly done. I don't mean to be a jerk by any means but why not use less weight and do them to parallel? Is it just to use BIG weight? Do you believe just bending your knees is more effective than full squats? I used to squat and would go over 500lbs but would make sure I did parallel or would not consider it a squat....
I believe in this case, as with most, better to use a lighter weight and swallow your pride - you would get better results. You could do the same with any exercise - very small ROM and much bigger weights (bounce a bar off your chest in the bench..).

Regards,

Ron

You say "used" to squat, why do you not still squat?



Disk degeneration in lower back. My legs are now just worked with leg press, bb hack and extensions. Squats were a great exercise but I believe I abused my body with them (too heavy) and now pay the price...

Regards,

Ron
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Ellington Darden

Brian Johnston wrote:
Bill, based on the sensors in the machine, let's consider working the leg press in halves:

If you were to pause at the bottom half for a solid second, then lift for 2-3 seconds (half-way up) and then pause for a solid second before lowering again, would that not be 'easy' on the sensors and allow for different movement patterns (including stutters or 1 1/2 reps, etc.)? Of course, after doing some work in the bottom half you would do the same in the top half.

It sounds like the machines can do this, but it would require sufficient discipline on the part of the user to make certain there is a 'dead' stop at every point and not to bugger up the electronics (or your body).

I would be interested to hear if you decide to experiment with patterns, although once you think you no longer are gaining benefit (muscle mass is not improving) through the full ROM conventional means. Thanks.


Brian,

I have, in fact, done partial reps on both the X-Force Leg Press and Chest Press (Pec Seated Press) machines. It takes some practice, but partial reps can be performed. I believe they also could be applied on the other X-Force machines.

Ellington

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Seriousstrength

New York, USA

Bill De Simone wrote:
Bill De Simone wrote:
British bodybuilder and Soul Music Authority Mark Houghton just visited Main Line Health & Fitness to train on X-Force. Hopefully Roger got some video and Mark will share his impressions.

video of Mark on the MLHF Facebook page, everybody "like" it right now, (even if this link doesn't work)

https://www.facebook.com/...590427021001782


****Nice slow rep training.

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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Ellington Darden wrote:
I have, in fact, done partial reps on both the X-Force Leg Press and Chest Press (Pec Seated Press) machines. It takes some practice, but partial reps can be performed. I believe they also could be applied on the other X-Force machines.

Ellington



Thanks for the info. By the way, I sent you a PM on another topic.

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Seriousstrength

New York, USA

So if XForce can only be used in straight sets as Mark is doing them in the video, is Brian then suggesting that once large increases in loads are no longer possible and only small load increases are possible, Xforce is X'ed out of the trainees program?
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Seriousstrength

New York, USA

Bill De Simone wrote:
Bill De Simone wrote:
British bodybuilder and Soul Music Authority Mark Houghton just visited Main Line Health & Fitness to train on X-Force. Hopefully Roger got some video and Mark will share his impressions.

https://www.dropbox.com/...4%2039%20PM.mov

Another video from MLHF, this time Victor Martinez, another bodybuilder/happy customer


****He seems to almost waste the negative portion. I count 1-2 second negatives by him. What's the point then?
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Seriousstrength

New York, USA

Brian Johnston wrote:
Ellington Darden wrote:
I have, in fact, done partial reps on both the X-Force Leg Press and Chest Press (Pec Seated Press) machines. It takes some practice, but partial reps can be performed. I believe they also could be applied on the other X-Force machines.

Ellington



Thanks for the info. By the way, I sent you a PM on another topic.



***Dr. Darden - what is the purpose of partial reps?
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Tomislav

New York, USA

Seriousstrength wrote:
Brian Johnston wrote:
Ellington Darden wrote:
I have, in fact, done partial reps on both the X-Force Leg Press and Chest Press (Pec Seated Press) machines. It takes some practice, but partial reps can be performed. I believe they also could be applied on the other X-Force machines.

Ellington



Thanks for the info. By the way, I sent you a PM on another topic.



***Dr. Darden - what is the purpose of partial reps?


This is interesting! Is it because the CAM is not aggressive enough?
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Tomislav

New York, USA

cmg wrote:
Yes I do Mr. Strong. Do you think those "squats" look good? Do you think they are of value? I was young - went to heavy - thought I was invincible. That's what kids do - unfortunately. Sometimes you learn - other times not.
I don't care if anyone piles on 1000 lbs and goes for it!! Do 2" squats - just barely break locked knees. See what happens after a while...

Best regards,

Ron


cmg,
I've replied to you constructively on the FHLL thread to help you get lean; I don't lockout and we can discuss that there too if you like, but let's leave this thread for X-Force discussion.
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Seriousstrength

New York, USA

Dr. Darden,

Do you agree with Brian that once you see large gains in strength cease on XForce equipment the stimulus for hypertrophy has ended?

Or, do you feel that once this happens, smaller increases in load are still effective for hypertrophy using the same slow and to muscle failure method?

Thanks.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Why go the route of very slow muscle gains, taking months or years to achieve what is possible in a fraction of the time of doing something different and more challenging to the adaptive response of the body?
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Ellington Darden

Why partial reps? In the past, I've applied them to correct resistance curves that were too difficult in certain ranges.

Ellington
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Ellington Darden

Seriousstrength wrote:
Dr. Darden,

Do you agree with Brian that once you see large gains in strength cease on XForce equipment the stimulus for hypertrophy has ended?

Or, do you feel that once this happens, smaller increases in load are still effective for hypertrophy using the same slow and to muscle failure method?

Thanks.


Fred,

I'm not sure on these questions. I need more time using X-Force.

Ellington

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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Ellington Darden wrote:
Why partial reps? In the past, I've applied them to correct resistance curves that were too difficult in certain ranges.

Ellington


The argument then would be, what if you had 'perfect' resistance curves? According to RenEx, no one else has the right curves... according to Fred, his machines are ideal.

What I find interesting is that every person on Earth would have to have the same force curve within their muscles, no matter their height, muscle shape or length, thickness, etc., and that they all can be accommodated by the same cam on the same machine. I would like that one explained to me.
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Seriousstrength

New York, USA

Brian Johnston wrote:
Why go the route of very slow muscle gains, taking months or years to achieve what is possible in a fraction of the time of doing something different and more challenging to the adaptive response of the body?


****Off thread topic. But to reply, because what you are suggesting is only possible in rank beginners.

You *seem* to be suggesting that large gains in muscle can be achieved continuously by altering and varying the routine ITO equipment, method, volume and tempo. This is just NOT how hypertrophy works. If it did, we would ALL be huge by now.

YOU seem to be the only one of us who is of average height who weighs well over 200 pounds LEAN. Why? Because you know so much more than we do?

Xforceif indeed better for the reasons Dr. Darden stated, should be continuously better. There would be no need to quit using XForce and go back to using standard equipment and varying the method.
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Seriousstrength

New York, USA

"The argument then would be, what if you had 'perfect' resistance curves? According to RenEx, no one else has the right curves... according to Fred, his machines are ideal."

****Off topic but to reply, I NEVER EVER said my machines were ideal. STOP doing this Brian. Many of my machines are very good. NONE are ideal.

"What I find interesting is that every person on Earth would have to have the same force curve within their muscles, no matter their height, muscle shape or length, thickness, etc., and that they all can be accommodated by the same cam on the same machine. I would like that one explained to me."

****The perfect cam or cam effect doesn't exist. But we can make what we have MUCH better. That's all.
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Mr. Strong

Brian Johnston wrote:
Why go the route of very slow muscle gains, taking months or years to achieve what is possible in a fraction of the time of doing something different and more challenging to the adaptive response of the body?



Its taken you 35 years to get to where you are. I would call that pretty slow muscle gain. Maybe it does take time?

How is it more challenging to make an exercise easier on the musculature? If I did that I would get nothing from it, even if it is different.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Fred, I never said that it was continuous... only that it was achieved better, and obviously relative to the genetics of the individual.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Fred, you are claiming that a person does not have to do Zone work... or if you recall me suggesting implementing light dumbbells with the Nautilus Flye machine to give a very different 'hybrid' feel...

And in both instances you said it was pointless if a person had the right equipment and curves/cams.

Well, if the perfect cam/curve does not exist, then why not experiment with variations of tension and stimulation?
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Tomislav

New York, USA

Ellington Darden wrote:
Why partial reps? In the past, I've applied them to correct resistance curves that were too difficult in certain ranges.

Ellington


Ellington,
is it that X-Force could benefit from a more aggressive CAM so as as to be easier in the bottom ROM, or just individual tailoring?
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Ellington Darden

Tomislav wrote:
Ellington Darden wrote:
Why partial reps? In the past, I've applied them to correct resistance curves that were too difficult in certain ranges.

Ellington

Ellington,
is it that X-Force could benefit from a more aggressive CAM so as as to be easier in the bottom ROM, or just individual tailoring?


There are only two or three X-Force cams, out of 14, that in my opinion, are too aggressive. The majority of the machines are on-target. The cams that need work are the ones that I've personally performed partial reps on.

Most of my partial-rep experimentation was done on Nautilus machines and Bowflex exercises.

Ellington

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