MB Madaera
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Chris Madaera
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Keelan Parham
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Bob Marchesello
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Jeff Turner
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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
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jitterbug

highheavy wrote:
Acerimmer1 wrote:
highheavy wrote:

I've produced better results in the last 3 weeks using his methods then in the last 2 years using those long duration sets, light weights and silly stop watches and clickers!


No offense meant but if you can possibly have gained more in the last 2 weeks than the last 2 years, then Josh couldn't really fail to impress you could he.

No offense taken. I think if anything it's demonstrative of what I was LOSING per their training suggestions. I went from having a half-way decent build to poor almost beyond description.

Now that I'm using Darden and AJ routines - the term growing like a weed is hardly overstating things.

But unlike their claims - I don't expect anyone to just take my word for it. That's why I will provide before and after pics, along with blood work and other measures as part of a study I'm currently participating in.

I am impressed by Josh's build - very impressed.

I have no agenda and I wish Josh tremendous success and lots of luck in November. Judging by his latest photos, he might need a little luck coming in at his best - time will tell.

He may go in and crush everybody and if that's the case, you cannot take anything away from him. And maybe he won't.

How does this show the efficacy of an approach? Where are all of the other great physiques RenEx has produced?

Show me just one perfect 10/10 bodybuilder/athlete or elite anything that this method produces. I've tried to find them and I can't because they are like unicorns and others creatures of myth...they do not exist!




Mr.highheavy,

It is Ken Hutchins' fault that you have not made good gains and eat too much?

Ed
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jitterbug

highheavy wrote:
Acerimmer1 wrote:
highheavy wrote:

I've produced better results in the last 3 weeks using his methods then in the last 2 years using those long duration sets, light weights and silly stop watches and clickers!


No offense meant but if you can possibly have gained more in the last 2 weeks than the last 2 years, then Josh couldn't really fail to impress you could he.

No offense taken. I think if anything it's demonstrative of what I was LOSING per their training suggestions. I went from having a half-way decent build to poor almost beyond description.

Now that I'm using Darden and AJ routines - the term growing like a weed is hardly overstating things.

But unlike their claims - I don't expect anyone to just take my word for it. That's why I will provide before and after pics, along with blood work and other measures as part of a study I'm currently participating in.

I am impressed by Josh's build - very impressed.

I have no agenda and I wish Josh tremendous success and lots of luck in November. Judging by his latest photos, he might need a little luck coming in at his best - time will tell.

He may go in and crush everybody and if that's the case, you cannot take anything away from him. And maybe he won't.

How does this show the efficacy of an approach? Where are all of the other great physiques RenEx has produced?

Show me just one perfect 10/10 bodybuilder/athlete or elite anything that this method produces. I've tried to find them and I can't because they are like unicorns and others creatures of myth...they do not exist!




Mr.highheavy,

You are going to produce blood work as proof that a program you don't do and have never done doesn't work?

You man want to read this from the RenEx site:

A common question I receive by some prospective clients is:

?I?d like to come in for just a few sessions so you can show me how to do the exercises and apply what I?ve learned in another gym, studio, or at home; is this possible??

My answer to this is:

?I cannot teach you to perform Renaissance Exercise outside of this studio any more than I can teach you to play guitar on a trumpet?.

We stand by a policy that expresses that three key components must be present in Renaissance Exercise:

1. Environment

2. Proper Equipment

3. Protocol (under the supervision of a qualified instructor.)

As Ken Hutchins has stated, the three components are of equal importance and interlocked. Without all three components, a Renaissance Exercise program is really nonexistent. The components form a system and any system must be viewed with gestalt.

In almost every case where this protocol seems to have failed the subject?s expectations an omission of at least one of these parts has occurred. Sometimes it?s perfectly obvious that the environment was inconsistent with our requirements. Other times the problem was that the equipment was tragically unsuitable for the protocol. And often, (especially among instructors who should know better) the protocol is butchered and bastardized repeatedly and insidiously until it?s virtually worthless.

In any of the foregoing cases and beyond, it is the protocol/philosophy that is wrongly blamed with a failure to deliver ? when, in fact, it is a careless instructor who has misrepresented the incomplete package as a whole system. This misrepresentation has effectively made former iterations of controlled, high intensity strength training, almost impotent and justly subject to criticism.

Within the paradigm of the three components, a program of Renaissance Exercise offers the most effective and efficient program for everything from general fitness to rehabilitation. The neophyte subject can quickly become proficient at performing the protocol as the skill requirements of the exercises are significantly lower than those required when using conventional equipment. As a beginner moves to proper intermediate levels of exercise, benefits abound. Finally at the advanced level, the Renaissance Exercise subject can fully realize his muscular potential and experience the broadest spectrum of improvements and adaptations.

We require such draconian measures to help us answer the all-important question : ?How little exercise does one require??

Without these standards of rigor, without this level of technology, it is a daunting task to usher the lay public into a high intensity program where we insist that 20-40 minutes of exercise per week can produce better results than the 3-5 days of weekly activity commonly practiced.

Going back to our prospective client who wishes to practice a semblance of the protocol outside of the ideal environment, it is important to remember that one cannot experience Renaissance Exercise outside a proper studio.

Having said this, once a subject has truly reached advanced levels performing Renaissance Exercise, such a subject can be taught to perform select exercises in less than ideal environments and using the body as resistance and/or with lesser equipment. Make no mistake however, that such a workout is NOT a Renaissance Exercise workout and represents only a modest substitute.

Mr.Highheavy

In case this was a difficult read I can summarize it for you:

"Without all three components, a Renaissance Exercise program is really nonexistent"

It seems you have a pretty low comprehension for this stuff.

"In almost every case where this protocol seems to have failed the subject?s expectations an omission of at least one of these parts has occurred."

Ed
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

tifhw wrote:
Oh wow! You must have great bodybuilding genetics, what titles have you won?

So you are saying Joshua has awful bodybuilding genetics?

Tif


More that he/you needs to devote as much time and attention to his/your legs as he/you does to his/your upper body.

If RenX is the way, then you'd think the legs --- of all areas --- would thrive best on 2-5 min TULs?
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jitterbug

Brian Johnston wrote:
What trouble... staying in at 10-12%? That is what is 'typical' for me. Trouble would be getting down to 5-6%, as per competition requirements/demands. It's gluttony that brings me beyond 12%... not a need for more calories, but the pleasure of eating excess calories for pleasure's sake... something I cannot do for very long without feeling more sluggish or 'crappy.'

I find it difficult to over-consume calories as I don't feel very well mentally or physically when doing so. Others may feel powerful and 'large' (or whatever), but I don't... I feel fat and shitty.



Mr.Johnston,

I'm curious why you believe you are 10% bodyfat? Are you suggesting that you could compete on Mr.Trentine's level? How could you know this?

Ed
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Tomislav

New York, USA

AShortt wrote:
Tomislav wrote:
Brian Johnston wrote:
...I feel like SHIT when I carry too much fat... not a desire to look like shit, like you do, Mr. Six Pack.


Brian,
Instead of getting angry, consider that you are being unrealistic.

You equate how you feel with how you look and are influenced by lean fitness cultural norms; these are your perceptions - I don't think I look fat or look bad when I'm bulked up except to those maintaining the fantasy ideals of lean-fitness culture with it's year round lean gaining athletes.



I could say the same just in reverse. You are caught up in looking and feeling bigger/heavier. You are insecure about being shorter lighter less muscular when lean so you avoid it.



Good point Andrew; fair enough to say I am caught up in getting bigger/heavier/stronger but aren't you and Brian as well?

The rest is just a matter of degree and perspective; I tested my BF at 17% today which is a bit lower than I would like, I find 20% ideal for bulkbuilding (and my abs just about vanish) but I can still see my abs along with the serratus at 17% BF in the room with the good lighting.

It's significant to mention that the machine placed me squarely in the healthy range at 17% (and 20% would be too) so the 10% BF or less you maintain year round is really just your preference and reflective of the modern fitness culture you are immersed in.

If you maintain 20% BF for a few years bulkbuilding drinking raw milk and cream you are going to go up a level for sure; there's nothing unhealthy about it so the question is do you have what it takes to step outside the fitness norm?

I think Brian does but he is having a laugh and won't say; there is no way he was 10% BF in that seminar pic and no doubt he will now be able to post some improved pics from bulkbuilding.


Brian wrote:
He would drop down a good 40% in size if he actually got lean... to the point of having a six-pack.

Brian,
fwiw you would have an easier time bulking with milk and eggs instead of the powders, then you wouldn't be so sour about it. Milk Shakes and EggNog are fun to drink and make you feel good; who wants to drink chalk shakes?

IMO Josh is providing an excellent example of bulkbuilding to push the envelope at an advanced level and deserves two thumbs up for the results he's achieved - you want to pretend you're not bulkbuilding fine (you're not fooling anyone) but it's hard to downplay a 20 lb gain in lean mass.
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highheavy

Tennessee, USA

No - I am responsible for my lack of progress and the fact that I ate too much.

Of course, I am now following a sound approach to nutrition and a result-producing method of resistance training.

Ken Hutchins is an interesting person. He is very intelligent and his writings influenced me in many positive ways - particularly in the area of critical thinking - which is why I now question much of this nonsense.

I'm perplexed as to why he has embarked on aerobics with weights. After all, Ken Hutchins awakened me and many of us to the aerobics nonsense and I doubt he has reversed his position on this issue.

He has clearly changed his views on set duration. He's gone from recommendations of roughly 70 seconds to more than 240 seconds.



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HeavyHitter32

Sets up to 5 min?! That's crazy.
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Turpin

tifhw wrote:
Turpin wrote:
tifhw wrote:
Turpin wrote:
Whether you eat `raw` , eat `junk food ` or otherwise if it makes you fat / overweight it isn't doing you much good. Trentine is proof of that !

T.

My best guess is that you desperately want to be him.

Ha , ha ... my guess is that Trentine wishes he had my genetics ( even then Ren-ex would be a waste of such ).

T.


Oh wow! You must have great bodybuilding genetics, what titles have you won?

So you are saying Joshua has awful bodybuilding genetics?

Tif


Yes , Trentine has poor muscular / skeletal balance for bodybuilding ( wide pelvis , high calves, long pectorals .... etc etc ) and in my opinion is far from being a good bodybuilder let alone a good pro bodybuilder ( the latter being something earned thru subjectivity / opinion ).

Me ? ... Bodybuilding pageants are not my thing , altho I did compete once placing in the top 3 at our NABBA national championships back in the 80`s.
In Powerlifting I have many titles , and they were not based on subjectivity.

T.

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Turpin

Trentine 7 weeks out from the professional universe.

T.

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Turpin

tifhw wrote:

Oh wow! You must have great bodybuilding genetics, what titles have you won?

So you are saying Joshua has awful bodybuilding genetics?

Tif


Turpin ( a non-competitive trainee )as I am year round , who uses only basic equipment ( kettlebells primarily ) trains in his backyard and yet exhibiting better muscularity than your so called Ren-ex bodybuilding pro.

T.

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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Ed, are you suggesting that Josh competes at 10 percent, because that is not very lean for competition. It's decent shape for a regular person, but not a professional competitor. Consequently, who said I could compete against him at 10 percent? The only thing I have compared myself to Josh is the DEVELOPMENT of my body, of my overall balance and some of my body parts being better. That is very different than strutting in my underwear up on a stage... kudos for him and Andrew for doing so.

Tomislov, I drank egg protein powders, as well as consuming eggs. You are ignorant of just about everything you speak about, particularly when it comes to me. Leave me out of your posts and don't ASSume anything about me.
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Tomislav

New York, USA

Brian Johnston wrote:
Ed, are you suggesting that Josh competes at 10 percent, because that is not very lean for competition. It's decent shape for a regular person, but not a professional competitor. Consequently, who said I could compete against him at 10 percent? The only thing I have compared myself to Josh is the DEVELOPMENT of my body, of my overall balance and some of my body parts being better. That is very different than strutting in my underwear up on a stage... kudos for him and Andrew for doing so.

Tomislov, I drank egg protein powders, as well as consuming eggs. You are ignorant of just about everything you speak about, particularly when it comes to me. Leave me out of your posts and don't ASSume anything about me.


Brian,
I have no doubt your powders were egg or casein based but they were powders and taking a powder for bulking is unpleasant in it's effect as you have pointed out.

Rheo Blair would have had you throw out your powders and drink the raw cream with good reason:

There really is a difference to how you feel and how assimilable raw cream and eggs are compared to a powder.

The raw food is full of anabolic factors from enzymes to good bacteria that assist in assimilation and optimal metabolism.

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AShortt

Ontario, CAN

Acerimmer1 wrote:
AShortt wrote:


So by example I started DL working sets at 225 and saw some gains to about 325 but then nothing on to 450. I could pull over 500 but what was the point...

You are really saying that your butt didn't grow and your lack of butt growth caused you to drop the exercise?


Nobody wants to be named Hue Gass.

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ron33

High Heavy,Thanks for post good info. dont give the cheerleaders any thought on their remarks.......Turpin - I Think You've won this contest-debate ... When i saw your Pic it reminded me of former Mr.Universe Jessup Wilkosz
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highheavy

Tennessee, USA

Hello Ed,

Blood tests before I started, during and after my current program.

And yes, I did practice the 10/10 in a very strict manner.

Ken Hutchins can say anything he wants, but the fact that he says it does not make it so.

Your post wasn't too difficult to read - although their own description of ideal borders on laughable and Orwellian.

You are right about comprehension though. I cannot comprehend how people can claim to have the best equipment, best protocol and best everything without producing any evidence to support these claims and not a single quality physique using their methods.

That really is difficult to comprehend.
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coomo

Turpin wrote:
tifhw wrote:

Oh wow! You must have great bodybuilding genetics, what titles have you won?

So you are saying Joshua has awful bodybuilding genetics?

Tif

Turpin ( a non-competitive trainee )as I am year round , who uses only basic equipment ( kettlebells primarily ) trains in his backyard and yet exhibiting better muscularity than your so called Ren-ex bodybuilding pro.

T.


I think youd edge him T.
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jitterbug

highheavy wrote:
No - I am responsible for my lack of progress and the fact that I ate too much.

Of course, I am now following a sound approach to nutrition and a result-producing method of resistance training.

Ken Hutchins is an interesting person. He is very intelligent and his writings influenced me in many positive ways - particularly in the area of critical thinking - which is why I now question much of this nonsense.

I'm perplexed as to why he has embarked on aerobics with weights. After all, Ken Hutchins awakened me and many of us to the aerobics nonsense and I doubt he has reversed his position on this issue.

He has clearly changed his views on set duration. He's gone from recommendations of roughly 70 seconds to more than 240 seconds.






Mr.Highheavy,

You contradict yourself every time you comment. I have The Renaissance of Exercise technical manual in my hand, written by Ken Hutchins with his most current recommendations. Page 171 , Chapter 33

Suggested RcTs

Leg Press- general rep range guide is 4 to 8 repetitions, that is 1:20 to 2:40.

Next he lists what he calls "Super Min and Super Max" rep guides for very advanced subjects.

This range is for people who have optimized performance and are devoid of discrepancies. For them he recommends a Super Min of 3 reps which is 60 seconds and a Super Max which is 5 reps, this is 1:40 seconds, or up to 1:50 with thorough inroad method. He states this is ONLY for "Very advanced subjects"

He recommends all instructors use a guide of 10 reps when teaching the Leg Press for the first time, but 8 reps for teaching most other exercises.

I happen to have this memorized as I'm studying for the RenEx certification.

Why would you lie to discredit sir?

I think it is at least humorous and representative of your understanding that you think "Aerobics" is a type of exercise or representative of a longer time frame doing an exercise. It hows how poor your understanding is a perhaps why you feel so threatened to lie.

Ed
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jitterbug

highheavy wrote:
Hello Ed,

Blood tests before I started, during and after my current program.

And yes, I did practice the 10/10 in a very strict manner.

Ken Hutchins can say anything he wants, but the fact that he says it does not make it so.

Your post wasn't too difficult to read - although their own description of ideal borders on laughable and Orwellian.

You are right about comprehension though. I cannot comprehend how people can claim to have the best equipment, best protocol and best everything without producing any evidence to support these claims and not a single quality physique using their methods.

That really is difficult to comprehend.



Mr.Highheavy,

Clearly it was a difficult read for you because you still cannot demonstrate comprehension.

First off I would say with 100% certainty that your blood work is no proof of either the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of RenEx, this is just silly.

Second, going 10/10 is a parameter, one that occurs when using their techniques and resistance curves and of course equipment. Performing 10/10 on Triceps Pressdown at your gym is not RenEx.

It's the equivalent of reading on your microwave that the cook time for a baked potato is 10 minutes and you go and put your baked potato in the oven for 10 minutes and complain the instructions were wrong.

Mr.Hutchins states in the manual that his methods may be a good intelligence test, one which you are failing Mr.Highheavy weight. Every comment you make is more revealing.

Ed
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highheavy

Tennessee, USA

Ed,

It has been suggested that you are Ken Hutchins. I really don't know, but IF this is the case - it is pitiful beyond my ability to describe and shows that I was looking up to a mental and ethical midget. I mean I seriously do not have a broad enough lexicon to describe just how low class that is - IF IT'S TRUE.

Because Ken recommends something it doesn't mean it's correct and BOY HAVE I FOUND THAT OUT THE HARD WAY!

You don't need advanced calculus to understand that perfect 10/10 combined with so-called "squeeze" is going to lend itself to long duration sets.

You do remember the video where the master guru himself was shown instructing a subject on leg press for nearly 6 full minutes...don't you?

Conveniently AND predictably the video has been removed by the user. I wonder why?

I doubt anyone on this board is ignorant enough to suggest the anaerobic/aerobic pathways are analogous to "on/off" light switches.

Perhaps the only way to be fully anaerobic is death - something I don't feel like experiencing just yet.

It's a matter of degree and I prefer to stay within the anaerobic pathways as much as possible.

Take a look at a sprinter and compare their physique to a miler.

Good luck on the certification - I desperately wanted to obtain it sometime ago, but it was out of my financial reach - a few thousand dollars.

I'm many things, ignorant about quite a few, but I don't lie about anything and I post videos and pictures to show that I'm authentic and I post them for all to see without pulling them down.

I am living proof that this method is one of the best ways to become deconditioned and weaker.

When I publish the results of my study and make the results available for any interested - at least it will have been seen to fruition as opposed to an osteoporosis study in which the so-called ultimate method was supposedly conceived.

Very interesting - considering the plug was pulled and the study proved nothing in terms of efficacy of the protocol.

Ed, I hope that you'll share some videos and pictures like a lot of the others here do, but I won't hold my breath.
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SB2006

You've experienced great results Turpin! Your condition speaks very well for your exercise program!
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jitterbug

highheavy wrote:
Ed,

It has been suggested that you are Ken Hutchins. I really don't know, but IF this is the case - it is pitiful beyond my ability to describe and shows that I was looking up to a mental and ethical midget. I mean I seriously do not have a broad enough lexicon to describe just how low class that is - IF IT'S TRUE.

Because Ken recommends something it doesn't mean it's correct and BOY HAVE I FOUND THAT OUT THE HARD WAY!

You don't need advanced calculus to understand that perfect 10/10 combined with so-called "squeeze" is going to lend itself to long duration sets.

You do remember the video where the master guru himself was shown instructing a subject on leg press for nearly 6 full minutes...don't you?

Conveniently AND predictably the video has been removed by the user. I wonder why?

I doubt anyone on this board is ignorant enough to suggest the anaerobic/aerobic pathways are analogous to "on/off" light switches.

Perhaps the only way to be fully anaerobic is death - something I don't feel like experiencing just yet.

It's a matter of degree and I prefer to stay within the anaerobic pathways as much as possible.

Take a look at a sprinter and compare their physique to a miler.

Good luck on the certification - I desperately wanted to obtain it sometime ago, but it was out of my financial reach - a few thousand dollars.

I'm many things, ignorant about quite a few, but I don't lie about anything and I post videos and pictures to show that I'm authentic and I post them for all to see without pulling them down.

I am living proof that this method is one of the best ways to become deconditioned and weaker.

When I publish the results of my study and make the results available for any interested - at least it will have been seen to fruition as opposed to an osteoporosis study in which the so-called ultimate method was supposedly conceived.

Very interesting - considering the plug was pulled and the study proved nothing in terms of efficacy of the protocol.

Ed, I hope that you'll share some videos and pictures like a lot of the others here do, but I won't hold my breath.



Mr.highheavy,

You only lie, Mr.Hutchins recommendations are in the book, you can't make up your own version then say it doesn't work. The video in question was of a patient post-op from a total hip replacement. Watch the video, look at the time it starts and when the set finishes. Well you might not want to do that because you cannot deny that you lied again. The set was right around 4 minutes, which is appropriate for early stage rehabilitation.

Sorry to hear you couldn't qualify for the test. I see why you are angry.

Ed
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highheavy

Tennessee, USA

Ed,

You...I mean Ken refers to high intensity exercise with a meaningful resistance as lasting from 1-4 minutes.

Why instruct a person for nearly 6 minutes on Leg Press? This is absurdly long and completely unnecessary and undesirable if strengthening is the goal.

In order to rehabilitate, does the subject not need to increase strength?

I'd point out that you are wrong about the length of time on the video, but it has been removed so I cannot, but anyone that saw it observed the same thing I did: 90 seconds of TSC followed by 12 dynamic repetitions at a cadence of 10/10.

If your math isn't up to par, that's 5:30, but allowing for the turnarounds, it was near 6 full minutes.

I've lied about nothing and it wasn't a matter of qualifying for their certification as you put it.

I just didn't view an expenditure like that as something I'd ever get much of a return on. Especially when considering the fact that I have a nationally recognized certification that gets me in the door of nearly any facility I want - not laughed out.

You could take the top 5 certifications in terms of being recognized within the health and fitness industry: ACSM, NSCA, NASM, ACE and AFAA and by take, I mean purchase the programs and test and you would still have money left when compared to the RenEx certification which is totally unrecognized.

I mean this is no longer diminishing returns...there are no returns!

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jitterbug

highheavy wrote:
Ed,

You...I mean Ken refers to high intensity exercise with a meaningful resistance as lasting from 1-4 minutes.

Why instruct a person for nearly 6 minutes on Leg Press? This is absurdly long and completely unnecessary and undesirable if strengthening is the goal.

In order to rehabilitate, does the subject not need to increase strength?

I'd point out that you are wrong about the length of time on the video, but it has been removed so I cannot, but anyone that saw it observed the same thing I did: 90 seconds of TSC followed by 12 dynamic repetitions at a cadence of 10/10.

If your math isn't up to par, that's 5:30, but allowing for the turnarounds, it was near 6 full minutes.

I've lied about nothing and it wasn't a matter of qualifying for their certification as you put it.

I just didn't view an expenditure like that as something I'd ever get much of a return on. Especially when considering the fact that I have a nationally recognized certification that gets me in the door of nearly any facility I want - not laughed out.

You could take the top 5 certifications in terms of being recognized within the health and fitness industry: ACSM, NSCA, NASM, ACE and AFAA and by take, I mean purchase the programs and test and you would still have money left when compared to the RenEx certification which is totally unrecognized.

I mean this is no longer diminishing returns...there are no returns!




Mr.Highheavy,

Maybe you don't lie? maybe you are just stupid. 12 reps on Leg Press is 4minutes. You do not add other exercises on to a TUL. If you do Leg Curl, Hip Abduction and Leg Press in sequence for 6 minutes it is not accumulative. TSC Hip Adduction and TSC Hip Adduction are not Leg Press. I'm guessing you don't even know what you are seeing. The patient was rehabbing a totally replaced hip of course you error in favor of set duration over load. I apologize you're not a liar, just stupid. What does your National certification tell you to do with a total hip replacement rehab.

Ed
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jitterbug

Brian Johnston wrote:
Ed, are you suggesting that Josh competes at 10 percent, because that is not very lean for competition. It's decent shape for a regular person, but not a professional competitor. Consequently, who said I could compete against him at 10 percent? The only thing I have compared myself to Josh is the DEVELOPMENT of my body, of my overall balance and some of my body parts being better. That is very different than strutting in my underwear up on a stage... kudos for him and Andrew for doing so.


Mr.Johnston,

What I'm saying is that you are speculating. Having never been in that condition you don't know what you could or could not do.

Ed
Tomislov, I drank egg protein powders, as well as consuming eggs. You are ignorant of just about everything you speak about, particularly when it comes to me. Leave me out of your posts and don't ASSume anything about me.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Ed, you are speculating as well, or I might say ASSuming things. I have been in that condition, but I did not compete. I got very lean many times in the past, at about 5% body fat. The first time was in my early 20s. Nor do I care how well I would do against Josh or anyone else. Bodybuilding competition interests me as much as poking my eyes out. Best wishes.
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