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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Ed, you seem to be on the same moronic wavelength as Tomislov. I am not arguing against drinking milk, or that the added calories can contribute to added mass. WHERE did I say anything like that? But this is what I have issue with... having defined serratus and a six pack and still carry 30 pounds of excess (read that... EXCESS) fat. Where is he carrying it... on his ass and chest? Who on here can have a defined six pack and be carrying 30 pounds of excess fat (for the purposes of turning into muscle)?????????
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jitterbug

dipsrule wrote:
jitterbug wrote:
dipsrule wrote:
Please God if there is one end the thread.

WTF already. So much bullshit its unreal.

Bulk building do you think we are stupid?

Maybe to a certain point. If you get fat you still need the right genetics to build muscle to the point in some of the pictures in this thread in the first place.

If you dont well your going to be fat. What if your a normal or average and not gifted individual?

Yes you call still build muscle but not like most booby builders. Why put your heath at risk?

I learned my lesson by eating to much through the advice of a Pro selling a system to get big,fast.

I would rather take steroids than bulk build to over 40 pounds in body weight(not muscle)

What I find even more fascinating is this is a forum about HIT.

I have never saw or read or was told that Dr.Darden,and Arthur Jones ever recommended bulk building.

Just the opposite in fact.

Now if Tomi or anyone else thinks they have something new to add to HIT by bulk building maybe you should write a book like Dr.Darden. Show before and after shots,detail the diets used,routines. Maybe even a bulletin ala Jones.

But the only thing that will happen is I will receive personal attacks and insults.

Here is part of an article Dr.Darden wrote and the part im posting is words Jones used. The article is about unlearning and HIT

Then, Arthur said, "Years ago, a reporter asked me . . . Mr. Jones, how old are you? I replied . . . Old enough to know that you can?t change the thinking of fools ? but young and foolish enough to keep on trying.

"More recently, my life has been a series of outrages ? outrages brought on by foolish people. I have no use for fools. Yet, I?m constantly subjected to their presence ? in every city, in every country. There is no place on the planet left untouched by foolish people.

"I?m exhausted . . . I?m tired of it all.

Here if anyone want to read the whole thing its called


Arthur Jones: Some Unlearning Thoughts about HIT its on this website.

http://drdarden.com/...ic.do?id=383325

Since this forum is supposed to be about HIT maybe some may want to unlearn some things.

Some things may have changed but ask yourself "why am I here?"

Is it to contribute and be helpful?

Is it to come here a start crap and troll other people to upset them?

Are you anti HIT?

If the answer is yes to one or both of the last two questions you are in the wrong place.

Then by doing this over and over some of the guys for example Dr.Ken stopped coming here because of the bullshit. That is a shame.

But what will happen is all my thoughts ive said here to support HIT and its ways will be a waste of time and I should know better.

I predict if anyone dont agree(not that anyone needs too)I will be treated like shit and questioned.

The best I could hope for is a reasonable debate. But I was not always the best with debates.

As Ron White said in a joke about being on the debating team and being kick off because of his reply.

His response to the questions was "oh yea fuck you"

Rather nasty on my part I must admit.But im just doing what most everyone else does around here.








Mr.Dipsrule,

Why call for the close of a popular thread with good debate?

Straight from Mr.Arthur Jones from one of his articles.

"Training under my supervision, training very hard but very
briefly, he gained more than seventy pounds of muscle in about five months; apart from the exercise, the only thing else
that he did was to start drinking a gallon of buttermilk a day in addition to his usual day" Arthur Jones

How well do you know your H.I.T ?

Mr.Johnson what do you say to this?

Ed

He never said he was bulk building. Just he was drinking a gallon of buttermilk.

Eating enough to calories to gain muscle. If alot of those calories came from buttermilk them so be it.

Maybe if Jones made him eat raw meat he would have got better results.But you get where im going with this.

He never said he got fat first and dieted down. Show me where it says that.

If you want to be a dick(insult? yes because your attitude insults me) and cherry pick to make it look like its something its not go a head. I can go tit for that with you if you like.

What about Viator? Im talking before the Colorado experiment.

If you knew your HIT you would know how Viator trained and how he gained for the AAU Mister America. You would know how Jones trained.

Its well documented. No bulkbuilding,just muscle building.

Yes I do know my HIT. Now I will drop some names,I should know better but I will anyway.But Im sick of the attitude you take when you think you are correct.

Ive read just about everything Jones and Darden has ever written. Ive meet and corresponded with Dr.Ken. Ive talked with Greg Anderson since the 90s.You could add Both Mentzers to a lesser extent in there too. With what ive learned from all the about ive been able to train for over 20 years using HIT.

Go ahead and ask Brian. He wrote the whole Arthur Jones collection.If you dont have it you might want to buy it before you tell me about HIT.

But your RenEx now so none of what I just wrote should matter.You give Josh the final word over everyone else. RenEx is not HIT correct?

But if you want to take it another step and and tell me about HIT and get personal.Because that how I took it when you questioned me.

When you first came around here you kept asking about negative exercise. If you like I can go find your posts about the subject but It would be a waste of time.

Why? Because you will only try to divert the facts away from yourself and cherry pick something I wrote to question. Unless you contact a mod and ask him to delete them then they will still be there.

Feel free to dig up any dirt you can find about me on here.

If you knew your HIT you would have known the answers to those questions about negative exercise.Do you know your HIT.

Some people here think your Hutchins. But I dont think so by the tone of some of your posts about negative exercise.

Most of the time I try not to get involved in things that turn into stupid shit,but this time I am.

If this seams personal it is for me. I could be way off base and took your comments the wrong way.

But you come off as being one of the guys Jones talked in the article I linked in the post you how to quote me in.

Maybe you should keep you superior knowledge about training to RenEx.

Better yet dont even bother to respond to me until you know what your talking about as far as HIT.

But you will with your Mr.Dipsrule or your Mr.Johnson,leaving out the T just to try to irritate Brian.

So maybe before you take my inventory,you might want to take your own,but I thought I would do it for you this time.

If your point was to make a valid point that would be one thing. But I did not take it that way.

If your point was to upset me,well good job it worked.

Speaking for myself,since RenEx is not HIT maybe you should stick with RenEx and learn and discuss its merits with your fellow RenEx practitioners. I dont think your going to recuit many here.

Im not bashing RenEx at all. In fact I can see some good points about it.

But if you dont like my thoughts refer to my Ron White remark.



Mr.Dipsrule,

1 gallon of additional buttermilk on top of his regular maintenance needs.

Ed
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jitterbug

Brian Johnston wrote:
Ed, you seem to be on the same moronic wavelength as Tomislov. I am not arguing against drinking milk, or that the added calories can contribute to added mass. WHERE did I say anything like that? But this is what I have issue with... having defined serratus and a six pack and still carry 30 pounds of excess (read that... EXCESS) fat. Where is he carrying it... on his ass and chest? Who on here can have a defined six pack and be carrying 30 pounds of excess fat (for the purposes of turning into muscle)?????????



Mr.Johnson,

Everyone is a moron compared to you.

Ed
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dipsrule

Pennsylvania, USA

jitterbug wrote:
dipsrule wrote:
jitterbug wrote:
dipsrule wrote:
Please God if there is one end the thread.

WTF already. So much bullshit its unreal.

Bulk building do you think we are stupid?

Maybe to a certain point. If you get fat you still need the right genetics to build muscle to the point in some of the pictures in this thread in the first place.

If you dont well your going to be fat. What if your a normal or average and not gifted individual?

Yes you call still build muscle but not like most booby builders. Why put your heath at risk?

I learned my lesson by eating to much through the advice of a Pro selling a system to get big,fast.

I would rather take steroids than bulk build to over 40 pounds in body weight(not muscle)

What I find even more fascinating is this is a forum about HIT.

I have never saw or read or was told that Dr.Darden,and Arthur Jones ever recommended bulk building.

Just the opposite in fact.

Now if Tomi or anyone else thinks they have something new to add to HIT by bulk building maybe you should write a book like Dr.Darden. Show before and after shots,detail the diets used,routines. Maybe even a bulletin ala Jones.

But the only thing that will happen is I will receive personal attacks and insults.

Here is part of an article Dr.Darden wrote and the part im posting is words Jones used. The article is about unlearning and HIT

Then, Arthur said, "Years ago, a reporter asked me . . . Mr. Jones, how old are you? I replied . . . Old enough to know that you can?t change the thinking of fools ? but young and foolish enough to keep on trying.

"More recently, my life has been a series of outrages ? outrages brought on by foolish people. I have no use for fools. Yet, I?m constantly subjected to their presence ? in every city, in every country. There is no place on the planet left untouched by foolish people.

"I?m exhausted . . . I?m tired of it all.

Here if anyone want to read the whole thing its called


Arthur Jones: Some Unlearning Thoughts about HIT its on this website.

http://drdarden.com/...ic.do?id=383325

Since this forum is supposed to be about HIT maybe some may want to unlearn some things.

Some things may have changed but ask yourself "why am I here?"

Is it to contribute and be helpful?

Is it to come here a start crap and troll other people to upset them?

Are you anti HIT?

If the answer is yes to one or both of the last two questions you are in the wrong place.

Then by doing this over and over some of the guys for example Dr.Ken stopped coming here because of the bullshit. That is a shame.

But what will happen is all my thoughts ive said here to support HIT and its ways will be a waste of time and I should know better.

I predict if anyone dont agree(not that anyone needs too)I will be treated like shit and questioned.

The best I could hope for is a reasonable debate. But I was not always the best with debates.

As Ron White said in a joke about being on the debating team and being kick off because of his reply.

His response to the questions was "oh yea fuck you"

Rather nasty on my part I must admit.But im just doing what most everyone else does around here.








Mr.Dipsrule,

Why call for the close of a popular thread with good debate?

Straight from Mr.Arthur Jones from one of his articles.

"Training under my supervision, training very hard but very
briefly, he gained more than seventy pounds of muscle in about five months; apart from the exercise, the only thing else
that he did was to start drinking a gallon of buttermilk a day in addition to his usual day" Arthur Jones

How well do you know your H.I.T ?

Mr.Johnson what do you say to this?

Ed

He never said he was bulk building. Just he was drinking a gallon of buttermilk.

Eating enough to calories to gain muscle. If alot of those calories came from buttermilk them so be it.

Maybe if Jones made him eat raw meat he would have got better results.But you get where im going with this.

He never said he got fat first and dieted down. Show me where it says that.

If you want to be a dick(insult? yes because your attitude insults me) and cherry pick to make it look like its something its not go a head. I can go tit for that with you if you like.

What about Viator? Im talking before the Colorado experiment.

If you knew your HIT you would know how Viator trained and how he gained for the AAU Mister America. You would know how Jones trained.

Its well documented. No bulkbuilding,just muscle building.

Yes I do know my HIT. Now I will drop some names,I should know better but I will anyway.But Im sick of the attitude you take when you think you are correct.

Ive read just about everything Jones and Darden has ever written. Ive meet and corresponded with Dr.Ken. Ive talked with Greg Anderson since the 90s.You could add Both Mentzers to a lesser extent in there too. With what ive learned from all the about ive been able to train for over 20 years using HIT.

Go ahead and ask Brian. He wrote the whole Arthur Jones collection.If you dont have it you might want to buy it before you tell me about HIT.

But your RenEx now so none of what I just wrote should matter.You give Josh the final word over everyone else. RenEx is not HIT correct?

But if you want to take it another step and and tell me about HIT and get personal.Because that how I took it when you questioned me.

When you first came around here you kept asking about negative exercise. If you like I can go find your posts about the subject but It would be a waste of time.

Why? Because you will only try to divert the facts away from yourself and cherry pick something I wrote to question. Unless you contact a mod and ask him to delete them then they will still be there.

Feel free to dig up any dirt you can find about me on here.

If you knew your HIT you would have known the answers to those questions about negative exercise.Do you know your HIT.

Some people here think your Hutchins. But I dont think so by the tone of some of your posts about negative exercise.

Most of the time I try not to get involved in things that turn into stupid shit,but this time I am.

If this seams personal it is for me. I could be way off base and took your comments the wrong way.

But you come off as being one of the guys Jones talked in the article I linked in the post you how to quote me in.

Maybe you should keep you superior knowledge about training to RenEx.

Better yet dont even bother to respond to me until you know what your talking about as far as HIT.

But you will with your Mr.Dipsrule or your Mr.Johnson,leaving out the T just to try to irritate Brian.

So maybe before you take my inventory,you might want to take your own,but I thought I would do it for you this time.

If your point was to make a valid point that would be one thing. But I did not take it that way.

If your point was to upset me,well good job it worked.

Speaking for myself,since RenEx is not HIT maybe you should stick with RenEx and learn and discuss its merits with your fellow RenEx practitioners. I dont think your going to recuit many here.

Im not bashing RenEx at all. In fact I can see some good points about it.

But if you dont like my thoughts refer to my Ron White remark.


Mr.Dipsrule,

1 gallon of additional buttermilk on top of his regular maintenance needs.

Ed


YES YES

Using this logic you are correct. To add muscle one would NEED to eat or drink ABOVE their regular maintenance needs.

MAINTENANCE = to maintain. If you maintain you dont gain or loose.

In this case well quess what? He ate above maintenance levels.

If not then where would the gains come from?

So in this case the additional calories may have came from buttermilk.IT could have been bananas,eggs.pizza ect.

But this is NOT bulk building.

Its simply eating enough to gain.ITs possible he ate more than he needed to gain.

But NOT overeating for the sake of bulking up to then loose fat and see how much has turned out to be muscle.

Do you understand this? Its just that simple.

You got it right or Jones did if your quote was from Jones.

If you dont understand this you never will.

Since this is Dr.Darden forum maybe you could PM him and get him to explain it to you.

He would know more about Jones and his ways than you.

But he is not RenEx so I doubt you would listen to him. I think Josh could explain this to you very well also if you choose to listen.

But in the end I dont really give a crap what you do. But if you want I can go tit for tat with you anytime you want.










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Tomislav

New York, USA

Brian Johnston wrote:
Ya, maybe I could achieve bullshit by the bucketful, because you sure do. I suggest you investigate the study of logic and the differences between a necessary cause, a sufficient cause and a unique cause. Then again, I suspect it won't matter because you have a unique way of thinking. And if you were carrying 30 pounds of excess fat, you wouldn't have defined serratus and a six pack, expert.


Brian,
the difference between 10% BF and 20% BF is indeed 20 lbs, though it is not possible to gain pure fat.

I could post a pic of the six pack and defined serratus but what would that prove? Consider that muscularity can vary considerably between individuals at the same BF and I tend to carry fat evenly distributed.

And Josh was not leangaining so make up your mind already or stop saying he was lean! A few months ago you were calling him fat because he was Bulkbuilding:

Brian wrote:
Josh is Fat as of late. He's not larger than I am. He's taller at a slightly heavier body weight, but I've seen recent pictures of him (and him showing off his full body tattoos), and if I were that smooth I would weigh the same at a shorter height. Regardless, as Fred stated, it's moot. Consider if I put on 50 pounds of muscle over my career, and he put on 45 pounds, and if we had the same genetic potential, and if, and if, and if. Blah, blah, blah.

It's clear you just think athletes are fat at 17-20% BF and that's simply not true outside of fitness-culture.

And now that you can see he's put the muscle on you try to back peddle and call it lean gaining.

DipsRule,
excellent point that you would not want to repeat Josh's Bulkbuilding phase to the effect of carrying an extra 60 lbs for years to put 20 lbs of lean muscle on your physique.

Bulkbuilding is a lot of fun but it's not for everyone. It's an ideal training strategy for really advanced athletes who want to push the envelope in terms of muscular size:

Bulkbuilding represents the ultimate limits to which you can push your body, extracting every bit of fiber growth, every bit of strength and power.
- Ellington, BIG

Brian Bulkbuilds too and would probably do it long term like Josh if he realised it could be done without the bloating and discomfort he puts himself though with the crash weight gain powder.
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farhad

Massachusetts, USA

can we please obey an unwritten discussion board rule and NOT copy an entire post when responding to it, please? simple etiquette.

thanks folks.
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dipsrule

Pennsylvania, USA

Ok Ed

I did a little investigation of my own into the writings of Arthur Jones.

I found this in chapter 39 of the Nautilus Bulletin #1.

"Bulking up" by the purposeful addition of fatty tissue is always a mistake; very recent evidence
indicates that fat cells, once added (and fat cells, unlike muscle fibers, CAN be increased in number),
can never be removed ? apparently the SIZE of such cells can be reduced, but the actual number of
cells will not be reduced by anything short of surgical removal.


here is a link to the whole chapter online

http://arthurjonesexercise.com/...ulletin1/39.PDF


What say you? Or never mind nothing else is needed to be said the comment speaks for its self that is if your using AJ as your source.
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dipsrule

Pennsylvania, USA

More from AJ since his name is involved and Ed tried to make it look like he supported bulking up.

Chapter 43 Bulletin #1 cherry pick

Most beginning trainees are far too anxious to make rapid gains in bodyweight ? and in most cases, this results
in the addition of fatty tissue; an underweight but mature individual can usually gain at least an average of a
pound a week for a period of six months by following a very brief (but hard) training program three times
weekly ? some subjects will respond much faster, but caution is required if addition of fatty tissue is to be
avoided, as it almost always should be.
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dipsrule

Pennsylvania, USA

I can find more examples for you Ed since you liked to quote AJ.

But it would be overkill and I would just be doing it out of spite and thats not a good thing for me to do to myself or others beside what I have already posted.

In a perfect world I would have just kept my mouth shut,in this case my keyboard.

Having said this I really dont care if anyone bulks up and not. But It looks like that may not be necessary.

Im feeling a bit manic and today and could have found other ways to express myself. I anticipate no sleep until tomorrow night. Anything could happen. LOL. A full moon could make things worse.

Getting back to what this whole thing is about:

I want to wish Josh and Andrew all the best again. Hard work pays off in one way or the other. To what extent remains to be seen.

Whatever way either of them prepares I know its takes hard work and dedication.

Like them or not something should be said about that.

YMMV
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

"Ed" should know very well since he worked with Jones. Unfortunately, he was too busy stewing about why everyone at Nautilus failed to turn cartwheels about all his 'brilliant' ideas to listen.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

More ignorance... pure ignorance and a choice to understand things as you wish, Tomislov. What would a photo prove? That you likely are the only male in history who can have defined serratus and a six-pack while being 30 pounds overweight... a person who distributes a fat increase except around the midsection. Call Ripley's and Guiness!

And understand something, Tom, that 17% is FAT if a person is to COMPETE in a bodybuilding competition, which is what Josh is doing... right? That is why people were making comments on his conditioning 7 weeks out of competition (although a lot can happen in 7 weeks).

It's not possible to gain pure fat? Tell that to World's Biggest Loser. What planet are you from? And so, when I over eat and I smooth out and I can pinch more than an inch, what is that? Yes, I understand that fat holds water, but that extra water wouldn't exist if it were not for the added fat. Regardless, I'm catching onto your semantics... your brain is unique! Maybe Ed is right.


You stated "I tend to carry fat evenly distributed."

That's impossible... since 25-30 pounds of added fat to the body certainly would affect the abdominals... greatly. If you were 'defined' in the abs with an extra 30 pounds or so, what term would you describe them if you got down to 5 percent?

When did I say Josh was lean? Lean is a relative term. I said he could see his abs, which means he did NOT add 25-30 pounds of excess fat... over and above a body weight that would be required for him in the off-season and to gain any additional body weight. Why is that not clear?


"It's clear you just think athletes are fat at 17-20% BF and that's simply not true outside of fitness-culture."

It's fat in BODYBUILDING CULTURE... IN BODYBUILDING CULTURE. Frig, one needs to be low 'enough' in body fat in order to see the development... development that (apparently) we work so hard to obtain. Duh!!!! You're living in the Louis Cyr age, my friend.

Even this comment:

"excellent point that you would not want to repeat Josh's Bulkbuilding phase to the effect of carrying an extra 60 lbs for years to put 20 lbs of lean muscle on your physique."

A good chunk of that is WATER weight when it comes to leaning up for competition. And even 60 pounds is doubtful. How much did Josh weight, exactly? It was around 235, wasn't it? Minus 60 pounds, does he plan on competing at 175 pounds at over 6 feet tall? If so, where did the extra 20 pounds of lean go? What am I missing? What was his competition weight when he won the pro show, and will he be 20 pounds heavier in this show at the same state of leanness? Maybe... am I missing something with the numbers?

And stop your lying, you big bullshitter... stating that I increased weight through weight gain powders. Amazing how you ignored my consumption of 12 dozen raw eggs a day, along with raw liver blended with tomato juice. You don't know squat... and you don't know HOW to squat (6 inch squats, lol).
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Found some info... Josh competed at 185 pounds. That means he needs to compete at 205 pounds to demonstrate that he gained 20 pounds of lean (assuming he competes at the same level of leanness). And so, what does he weight today, about 6 weeks out from competition?
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Tomi
I could post a pic of the six pack and defined serratus but what would that prove?

==Scott==
What would that prove?? Really? Ok, with that logic in mind, yesterday I just did a set of curls in my new custom made Braciatoid arm Thrasher model 101 machine and my arms went from 15 1/2" to over 21 inches overnight!! Trust me!!....ha ha...
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Math, Schmath. Tomi has no time for that crap.

His rose-colored retinas tell him all he needs to know!!!
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HeavyHitter32

All of this "bulk building" is just a rationalization for Tomi to eat whatever he wants so he doesn't have to exercise healthy discipline in his eating.

Imagine eating everything you want with no limits and then claim it's all going to convert to muscle one day. lol
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Mr. Strong

dipsrule wrote:
I can find more examples for you Ed since you liked to quote AJ.

But it would be overkill and I would just be doing it out of spite and thats not a good thing for me to do to myself or others beside what I have already posted.

In a perfect world I would have just kept my mouth shut,in this case my keyboard.

Having said this I really dont care if anyone bulks up and not. But It looks like that may not be necessary.

Im feeling a bit manic and today and could have found other ways to express myself. I anticipate no sleep until tomorrow night. Anything could happen. LOL. A full moon could make things worse.

Getting back to what this whole thing is about:

I want to wish Josh and Andrew all the best again. Hard work pays off in one way or the other. To what extent remains to be seen.

Whatever way either of them prepares I know its takes hard work and dedication.

Like them or not something should be said about that.

YMMV


It was a gallon of buttermilk a day in addition to whatever was already been consumed. More like bulkbuilding, couldn't really be considered leangaining.

You need to learn how to write a post that doesn't jump all over the place.
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dipsrule

Pennsylvania, USA

Mr. Strong wrote:
dipsrule wrote:
I can find more examples for you Ed since you liked to quote AJ.

But it would be overkill and I would just be doing it out of spite and thats not a good thing for me to do to myself or others beside what I have already posted.

In a perfect world I would have just kept my mouth shut,in this case my keyboard.

Having said this I really dont care if anyone bulks up and not. But It looks like that may not be necessary.

Im feeling a bit manic and today and could have found other ways to express myself. I anticipate no sleep until tomorrow night. Anything could happen. LOL. A full moon could make things worse.

Getting back to what this whole thing is about:

I want to wish Josh and Andrew all the best again. Hard work pays off in one way or the other. To what extent remains to be seen.

Whatever way either of them prepares I know its takes hard work and dedication.

Like them or not something should be said about that.

YMMV

It was a gallon of buttermilk a day in addition to whatever was already been consumed. More like bulkbuilding, couldn't really be considered leangaining.

You need to learn how to write a post that doesn't jump all over the place.


You need to learn how to "comprehend" what you read and how you think.

What was be consumed was to maintain like the quote Ed used. Then the extra.It never says anything about bulking up.

You should go back a reread my last few posts several times and maybe you will understand. Add it all up together.

Your like Ed. You pick a sentence or two and twist it into a way you think its to your advantage.

But what that really does is just show everyone who understands this just how ignorant you really are.

Or that maybe this is the way you think you contribute to this forum.

Do you like to troll?

Why do you come here?

Do your train HIT?

There lets see if you can or will answer those above 3 questions.

A simple yes or no.


"You need to learn how to write a post that doesn't jump all over the place"

Ok does this one work for you? Plain simple to the point

How about answering those 3 questions?
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

==Scott==
I could be remembering this all wrong as it was a long time ago but I remember Jones saying something like he'd drink a gallon of butter milk each day but I don't recall him eating or living sensibly at all.Seems like he'd smoke cigarets and eat poorly and drink the milk on top of that. Hardly what I'd consider bulking.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

One should define what bulking is. Obviously a person needs to eat more than what is required to SUSTAIN body weight IF that person is thin, high metabolism, etc. Some the average person, it's a bit different, but not much.

For example, if I'm able to pinch an inch of fat around my midsection, obviously I'm getting in enough calories to sustain any possible muscle growth... I must be, because I'm getting in enough calories to SUSTAIN the extra fat around my waist, no matter how little it may be. Therefore, I don't need more calories since the calories I'm getting in are being used to SUSTAIN BOTH FAT AND ANY POSSIBLE MUSCLE that I currently possess.

And if I needed more calories to build more muscle, the calories I'm ingesting would not be going to SUSTAINING THE FAT, but going toward the muscle, and so I may notice a slight reduction in body fat as the muscle mass goes up a bit based on the same calories. This is something I've noticed over the past year or so, which is besides the point.

When it comes to bulk-building, I see this as a method of over-consumption without being scientific about 'how much' (apart from not eating so much that fat stores increase too much). It is an EXCESS OF CALORIES to sustain growth and to the point of progressively increasing FAT STORES until the hog decides to stop the calorie increase and merely sustain all that extra fat (e.g., stop when you hold 30 pounds of added blubber beyond what you actually need) that later must be shed in order to see what the heck is under that thick security blanket. It's only then that it can be determined if all those added calories did anything beyond a 'sensible' meal plan. Even then, to what extent did the quality of food and quality of training have on any growth vs. a surplus of calories? Try to determine that with any scientific validity!

However, my view could be wrong, but I've never seen or witnessed otherwise.
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AShortt

Ontario, CAN

When reviewing records and notes from over the years one thing stands out. Anytime I ate huge it actually seemed to slow the muscle building progress. May just be me and the burden of extra digestion but the trend has been obvious. This opposed to when I stay lean where any extra cals appear to aid recovery not slow it.

I think there is a fine line between giving the body what it needs to recover and supercompensate and that of over burdening the digestive system.

Much also depends on your body type, macro ratios you prefer and training style. The more carbs you eat and the less your training bleeds your glycogen stores...and especially related to endo characteristics...the less insulin sensitivity you will have. So higher numbers of muscular contractions per workout tends to allow for a higher carb content to diet.

Regards,
Andrew
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

==Scott==
If I'm anything I think I'm a pretty honest person and I think some of us just need to admit we like to eat and stop trying to act like we ate that extra food that puts a few extra pounds on us because it builds more muscles. I love chocolate chip cookies etc, etc and I eat that kind of stuff now and then because I love the taste not because I have some delusion that the fat I might get from them is going to be transferred into muscle some how.

Besides all that, losing alot of fat is a royal pain compared to losing just a few pounds.
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Mr. Strong

dipsrule wrote:
You need to learn how to "comprehend" what you read and how you think.

What was be consumed was to maintain like the quote Ed used. Then the extra.It never says anything about bulking up.

You should go back a reread my last few posts several times and maybe you will understand. Add it all up together.

Your like Ed. You pick a sentence or two and twist it into a way you think its to your advantage.

But what that really does is just show everyone who understands this just how ignorant you really are.

Or that maybe this is the way you think you contribute to this forum.

Do you like to troll?

Why do you come here?

Do your train HIT?

There lets see if you can or will answer those above 3 questions.

A simple yes or no.


"You need to learn how to write a post that doesn't jump all over the place"

Ok does this one work for you? Plain simple to the point

How about answering those 3 questions?


A gallon of milk a day in addition to what was already been consumed is not leangaining. Its bulking.
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Mr. Strong

Brian Johnston wrote:
One should define what bulking is. Obviously a person needs to eat more than what is required to SUSTAIN body weight IF that person is thin, high metabolism, etc. Some the average person, it's a bit different, but not much.

For example, if I'm able to pinch an inch of fat around my midsection, obviously I'm getting in enough calories to sustain any possible muscle growth... I must be, because I'm getting in enough calories to SUSTAIN the extra fat around my waist, no matter how little it may be. Therefore, I don't need more calories since the calories I'm getting in are being used to SUSTAIN BOTH FAT AND ANY POSSIBLE MUSCLE that I currently possess.

And if I needed more calories to build more muscle, the calories I'm ingesting would not be going to SUSTAINING THE FAT, but going toward the muscle, and so I may notice a slight reduction in body fat as the muscle mass goes up a bit based on the same calories. This is something I've noticed over the past year or so, which is besides the point.

When it comes to bulk-building, I see this as a method of over-consumption without being scientific about 'how much' (apart from not eating so much that fat stores increase too much). It is an EXCESS OF CALORIES to sustain growth and to the point of progressively increasing FAT STORES until the hog decides to stop the calorie increase and merely sustain all that extra fat (e.g., stop when you hold 30 pounds of added blubber beyond what you actually need) that later must be shed in order to see what the heck is under that thick security blanket. It's only then that it can be determined if all those added calories did anything beyond a 'sensible' meal plan. Even then, to what extent did the quality of food and quality of training have on any growth vs. a surplus of calories? Try to determine that with any scientific validity!

However, my view could be wrong, but I've never seen or witnessed otherwise.


If you are not eating enough to sustain the inch of fat then you become leaner but will then need to consume more to get that inch of fat to sustain further growth, and so on. Bulkbuilding is pretty much taking out the stage where you aren't eating enough to sustain muscle growth, with leangaining you will have periods like you mentioned above where you are getting leaner but not actually any bigger.
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jitterbug

dipsrule wrote:
You got it right or Jones did if your quote was from Jones.

If you dont understand this you never will.

Since this is Dr.Darden forum maybe you could PM him and get him to explain it to you.

He would know more about Jones and his ways than you.

But he is not RenEx so I doubt you would listen to him. I think Josh could explain this to you very well also if you choose to listen.

But in the end I dont really give a crap what you do. But if you want I can go tit for tat with you anytime you want.



Mr.Dipsrule,

I'm simply quoting Mr.Jones, he is clearly contradicting himself because an extra 2,200 calories above maintenance will lead to fat gain over time.

Ed
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

A warning to all... Tomislov and maybe others may indicate that it's not just a lot of eating, but raw food eating (easier on the digestive system). Funny how Tomislov never talked about raw food eating until now... which I suspect he never did himself much. I could be wrong.

However, I'm stating this right now: even with raw food there is a fine line between enough calories and excess calories that require us to strip the fat off at a later time.

Tomislov, remember not long ago you claimed that adding 25-30 pounds of fat would one day become muscle... if not all of it, then most of it. With Josh, he is supposed to lose upward of 60 pounds to get into competition shape. It may not be that much (I have no idea, and neither does he until he zeroes in), but you're claiming his gain of 60 pounds will result in a gain of 20 pounds of lean. Obviously he needed more than 25-30 pounds of fat to turn into 20 pounds or so into muscle... he required 60 pounds.

Even then, let's see if he's actually 20 pounds heavier than his usual 185 pound competition weight, and at the same leanness. Since you chat with him all the time, why not contact him and find out what his current weight is and how much more he thinks he needs to lose before competing.

Now onto Josh... I have no disrespect for Josh, and I hope him all the best. If he comes in 5 pounds heavier, that is pretty darn good (it's hard for an advanced trainee to gain anything). If he gained 20 pounds, then holy frig... great going! I'm not knocking how he eats or trains, or the progress he will make or lack thereof. I have more of an issue with Tomislov exaggerating and outright bullshitting his way into believing what he wants to believe.

Yes, we need enough calories to support muscle growth, but there is no evidence that being a pig and getting to 20% body fat is any better than remaining at a more 'healthy' weight... a weight that allows a person to SEE what is happening to the muscles to BETTER predict and determine what needs to CHANGE in one's training and nutrition... rather than being MASKED by excess body fat in the HOPES that ONE DAY the FAT WILL TURN INTO MUSCLE, just like the alchemists wanted to turn LEAD INTO GOLD.
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