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'The Sports Gene'
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Tony Williams

Excerpt from "The Sports Gene":

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/...ts-Gene-Ch6.pdf

"The Sports Gene", article on the new book in "The New York Times", Aug. 2013:

http://www.nytimes.com/...ccess.html?_r=0

Tony

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DNAHelix

New York, USA

Tony Williams wrote:
Excerpt from "The Sports Gene":

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/...ts-Gene-Ch6.pdf

"The Sports Gene", article on the new book in "The New York Times", Aug. 2013:

http://www.nytimes.com/...ccess.html?_r=0

Tony



Tony,

Do not waste your time posting in here about genetics. In here the only people who ever had genetics are Mentzers and Oliva. I take it, they were genetically inclined to take horse dosages of steroids and do volume training LOL.

P.S. interesting article, but again, to "fast" for this place.
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Mr. Strong

kulitsa wrote:
Tony Williams wrote:
Excerpt from "The Sports Gene":

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/...ts-Gene-Ch6.pdf

"The Sports Gene", article on the new book in "The New York Times", Aug. 2013:

http://www.nytimes.com/...ccess.html?_r=0

Tony



Tony,

Do not waste your time posting in here about genetics. In here the only people who ever had genetics are Mentzers and Oliva. I take it, they were genetically inclined to take horse dosages of steroids and do volume training LOL.

P.S. interesting article, but again, to "fast" for this place.




So do you think Sergio and Mentzer had good or bad genetics for bodybuilding?
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

kulitsa wrote:
Tony Williams wrote:
Excerpt from "The Sports Gene":

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/...ts-Gene-Ch6.pdf

"The Sports Gene", article on the new book in "The New York Times", Aug. 2013:

http://www.nytimes.com/...ccess.html?_r=0

Tony



Tony,

Do not waste your time posting in here about genetics. In here the only people who ever had genetics are Mentzers and Oliva. I take it, they were genetically inclined to take horse dosages of steroids and do volume training LOL.

P.S. interesting article, but again, to "fast" for this place.


==Scott==
The only people here who have genetics are the Mentzers and Oliva...It would be interesting to see some of the people who have no genetics. I know what you mean but that's not what you said, ha ha..
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DNAHelix

New York, USA

Speak of the devil. Two of this forum's omni present trolls have already chimed in.
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farhad

Massachusetts, USA

By no means I am an expert on steroids or genetics, but here is my 2 cents:

Mentzer and Oliva had great genetics in regards to muscle development, AND they also took steroids. What's the controversy??
They were part of the (2-5%) who were born with the potential to become professional bodybuilders. Of course, they would not have been able to achieve their physiques without steroids, but allocating credit between genetics and steroids can be very difficult, if not impossible task without before and after pictures and body analysis..IMO.
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Mr. Strong

kulitsa wrote:
Speak of the devil. Two of this forum's omni present trolls have already chimed in.






Lol, still haven't answered.

I know why, its because you know they had good genetics for bodybuilding, but posting that will contradict all that silliness you posted in the other thread.
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DNAHelix

New York, USA

farhad wrote:
By no means I am an expert on steroids or genetics, but here is my 2 cents:

Mentzer and Oliva had great genetics in regards to muscle development, AND they also took steroids. What's the controversy??
They were part of the (2-5%) who were born with the potential to become professional bodybuilders. Of course, they would not have been able to achieve their physiques without steroids, but allocating credit between genetics and steroids can be very difficult, if not impossible task without before and after pictures and body analysis..IMO.


Farhad, I absolutely support your position on the subject of how much credit should be allocated to steroids. A few things though:

1. No credible pictures of "before" steroids for any of these individuals. The only credibility would be an official statement of the testosterone ratios taken (similar to that administered by UFC).

2. DNA analysis, body composition analysis etc., there are none existing for those individuals. (None was done officially, prepubescent dreams of this forum's patrons and sales pitches of their idols do not count).

The only evidence existing are pictures of Mentzer after he stopped taking steroids. He looked pretty pathetic, I must say, he looked worse than an average guy of his age. So if we just base our judgement on that, I would say 90% of his physique could be attributed to steroids and 10% to volume training. Also judging by his health reports, his genetics were way below par.

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farhad

Massachusetts, USA

K,

Now I am curious, where can I find pics of Mentzer after he got off steroids? Preferably one without clothes on.I've only seen him with his baggy gym pants and sweatshirt. Can you post them here or provide link?

thanks,
f
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HeavyHitter32

farhad wrote:
K,

Now I am curious, where can I find pics of Mentzer after he got off steroids? Preferably one without clothes on.I've only seen him with his baggy gym pants and sweatshirt. Can you post them here or provide link?

thanks,
f


I posted a picture of Mentzer at 15 in another thread. When I spoke to Mentzer, he was very candid about his steroid use telling me he and Ray (and everyone else around) were taking well over the recommended dosages.

However, at 15 he said he had never seen a steroid and was benching 350 and squatting around 500.
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DNAHelix

New York, USA

farhad wrote:
K,

Now I am curious, where can I find pics of Mentzer after he got off steroids? Preferably one without clothes on.I've only seen him with his baggy gym pants and sweatshirt. Can you post them here or provide link?

thanks,
f


There was a ton on Facebook, in Dorian's thread, he looked terrible in most of them. There is video on YouTube where he is training some Italian guy, same result.

I do not think he ever took his sweatshirt off, he was just way out of shape. Good old Ahnuld looked way better in the same age than MM.

Look up a video of him training Marcus Reinhardt, that was filmed somewhere in the nineties, so he must have been in his mid forties. He looks in there like he is in late fifties. By that time genetics evaporated. We have guys in this forum who are in their late forties or even mid fifties and they look 100 times better than the genetically gifted MM did.
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DukeMatisse

Talent without training is useless... Thank God!

Mark Twain
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dipsrule

Pennsylvania, USA

The sports gene.

My first thought was Bo Jackson. If not for his hip injury he could have been a dominate RB for a long time.

I know he did not play a full NFL season.Im not sure if he played more than two years,but I think it was two. He averaged around 5.7 yards per carry.

He called football a hobby. Played baseball full time. The only person to play in a MLB all star game and an NFL pro bowl.

Do to his hip injury he did not play long enough to make an huge impact. But he made an impact playing for the Raiders.

The first and maybe the only played to come back from a hip replacement and play MLB baseball.

If you get a chance watch his story on 30 for 30 on espn.

I believe he was steroid free and on the espn special its was said he did not like to lift weights alot.
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HeavyHitter32

dipsrule wrote:
The sports gene.

My first thought was Bo Jackson. If not for his hip injury he could have been a dominate RB for a long time.

I know he did not play a full NFL season.Im not sure if he played more than two years,but I think it was two. He averaged around 5.7 yards per carry.

He called football a hobby. Played baseball full time. The only person to play in a MLB all star game and an NFL pro bowl.

Do to his hip injury he did not play long enough to make an huge impact. But he made an impact playing for the Raiders.

The first and maybe the only played to come back from a hip replacement and play MLB baseball.

If you get a chance watch his story on 30 for 30 on espn.

I believe he was steroid free and on the espn special its was said he did not like to lift weights alot.


Great example.

As a baseball enthusiast, I remember watching him (as the Royals were my favorite team at that time) and he was really coming along in baseball making dramatic improvements every year and hitting 30 homeruns in 1989 which was a lot in those days before the onset of heavy drug use.
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DNAHelix

New York, USA

HeavyHitter32 wrote:
However, at 15 he said he had never seen a steroid and was benching 350 and squatting around 500.


Sure, and I was breaking 20 bricks with 1 finger when I was fifteen.

Ha ha ha ha ha, it is good to be gullible like yourself, plus it helps our economy. LMAO
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Tony Williams

dipsrule wrote:
The sports gene.

My first thought was Bo Jackson. If not for his hip injury he could have been a dominate RB for a long time.

I know he did not play a full NFL season.Im not sure if he played more than two years,but I think it was two. He averaged around 5.7 yards per carry.

He called football a hobby. Played baseball full time. The only person to play in a MLB all star game and an NFL pro bowl.

Do to his hip injury he did not play long enough to make an huge impact. But he made an impact playing for the Raiders.

The first and maybe the only played to come back from a hip replacement and play MLB baseball.

If you get a chance watch his story on 30 for 30 on espn.

I believe he was steroid free and on the espn special its was said he did not like to lift weights alot.


Below is the link to ESPN's "30 for 30"
on Bo Jackson:

http://www.youtube.com/...h?v=yQQQ161c4S4

Tony

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HeavyHitter32

kulitsa wrote:
HeavyHitter32 wrote:
However, at 15 he said he had never seen a steroid and was benching 350 and squatting around 500.

Sure, and I was breaking 20 bricks with 1 finger when I was fifteen.

Ha ha ha ha ha, it is good to be gullible like yourself, plus it helps our economy. LMAO


Kulitsa,

When I was a teen, I had a friend who was bench pressing 275 pounds at 16. I spotted him. He had good genetics and was naturally shorter and stockier. All natural. It is not a far cry at all foe someone with great genetics who matures younger to put up those kind of numbers.

It's beyond comical that you think Mentzer had bad genetics. It's so evident with these guys, but for some reason you have a personal jealousy towards them for whatever reason.

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DNAHelix

New York, USA

HeavyHitter32 wrote:
kulitsa wrote:
HeavyHitter32 wrote:
However, at 15 he said he had never seen a steroid and was benching 350 and squatting around 500.

Sure, and I was breaking 20 bricks with 1 finger when I was fifteen.

Ha ha ha ha ha, it is good to be gullible like yourself, plus it helps our economy. LMAO

Kulitsa,

When I was a teen, I had a friend who was bench pressing 275 pounds at 16. I spotted him. He had good genetics and was naturally shorter and stockier. All natural. It is not a far cry at all foe someone with great genetics who matures younger to put up those kind of numbers.

It's beyond comical that you think Mentzer had bad genetics. It's so evident with these guys, but for some reason you have a personal jealousy towards them for whatever reason.



Yeah, sure, great genetics LOL. Jealous? Of what? There was nothing there to be jealous of. There were only steroids in there. Look at him in the videos. He was in his mid forties there! He looked like someone past his late fifties!

You know nothing of genetics! You just parrot other lemmings in here.

If you want to talk about genetics on any capacity, look up Jack Lalanne. All these Mentzes and Oliva and whoever else you might bring up are inferiors compared to this guy.

FYI 275 and 350 are miles away in terms of bench press.

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HeavyHitter32

kulitsa wrote:
HeavyHitter32 wrote:
kulitsa wrote:
HeavyHitter32 wrote:
However, at 15 he said he had never seen a steroid and was benching 350 and squatting around 500.

Sure, and I was breaking 20 bricks with 1 finger when I was fifteen.

Ha ha ha ha ha, it is good to be gullible like yourself, plus it helps our economy. LMAO

Kulitsa,

When I was a teen, I had a friend who was bench pressing 275 pounds at 16. I spotted him. He had good genetics and was naturally shorter and stockier. All natural. It is not a far cry at all foe someone with great genetics who matures younger to put up those kind of numbers.

It's beyond comical that you think Mentzer had bad genetics. It's so evident with these guys, but for some reason you have a personal jealousy towards them for whatever reason.



Yeah, sure, great genetics LOL. Jealous? Of what? There was nothing there to be jealous of. There were only steroids in there. Look at him in the videos. He was in his mid forties there! He looked like someone past his late fifties!

You know nothing of genetics! You just parrot other lemmings in here.

If you want to talk about genetics on any capacity, look up Jack Lalanne. All these Mentzes and Oliva and whoever else you might bring up are inferiors compared to this guy.

FYI 275 and 350 are miles away in terms of bench press.



How old or sick he looked in his forties says NOTHIHG about his genetic potential to gain muscle mass when he was healthier. The guy had very long muscle bellies and naturally thicker frame. His physique was far above 99% of the other steroid users. You think anyone who uses steroids looks like Mentzer? LOL You are a clueless to put it mildly. Very, very few people who take steroids today carry anywhere near the kind of muscle and density that Mentzer attained. Your average steroid user will put on about 25 pounds of muscle in most cases. Some guys with better genetics, good response and receptors will put on a bit more with them, but if you think that will transform them into Oliva or Mentzer or Viator or Arnold, etc. you are delusional. It does not happen which is why these guys are still talked about today: they are very rare and few people ever looked like that no matter what they took or trained.

Of course, there is a difference between 275 vs 350. However, my friend had good genetics, but was not a genetic freak. It's very conceivable someone with great genetics who matures early enough could posses extreme strength at 15. That photo of him was rather evident.

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Mr. Strong

kulitsa wrote:
HeavyHitter32 wrote:
kulitsa wrote:
HeavyHitter32 wrote:
However, at 15 he said he had never seen a steroid and was benching 350 and squatting around 500.

Sure, and I was breaking 20 bricks with 1 finger when I was fifteen.

Ha ha ha ha ha, it is good to be gullible like yourself, plus it helps our economy. LMAO

Kulitsa,

When I was a teen, I had a friend who was bench pressing 275 pounds at 16. I spotted him. He had good genetics and was naturally shorter and stockier. All natural. It is not a far cry at all foe someone with great genetics who matures younger to put up those kind of numbers.

It's beyond comical that you think Mentzer had bad genetics. It's so evident with these guys, but for some reason you have a personal jealousy towards them for whatever reason.



Yeah, sure, great genetics LOL. Jealous? Of what? There was nothing there to be jealous of. There were only steroids in there. Look at him in the videos. He was in his mid forties there! He looked like someone past his late fifties!

You know nothing of genetics! You just parrot other lemmings in here.

If you want to talk about genetics on any capacity, look up Jack Lalanne. All these Mentzes and Oliva and whoever else you might bring up are inferiors compared to this guy.

FYI 275 and 350 are miles away in terms of bench press.





So do you think Sergio and Mentzer had good or bad genetics for bodybuilding?

Will you answer this time? Should I start a new thread with this question just in case you are missing it?

:)

I'm calling BS on your genetics silliness.
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DNAHelix

New York, USA

HeavyHitter32 wrote:
kulitsa wrote:
HeavyHitter32 wrote:
kulitsa wrote:
HeavyHitter32 wrote:
However, at 15 he said he had never seen a steroid and was benching 350 and squatting around 500.

Sure, and I was breaking 20 bricks with 1 finger when I was fifteen.

Ha ha ha ha ha, it is good to be gullible like yourself, plus it helps our economy. LMAO

Kulitsa,

When I was a teen, I had a friend who was bench pressing 275 pounds at 16. I spotted him. He had good genetics and was naturally shorter and stockier. All natural. It is not a far cry at all foe someone with great genetics who matures younger to put up those kind of numbers.

It's beyond comical that you think Mentzer had bad genetics. It's so evident with these guys, but for some reason you have a personal jealousy towards them for whatever reason.



Yeah, sure, great genetics LOL. Jealous? Of what? There was nothing there to be jealous of. There were only steroids in there. Look at him in the videos. He was in his mid forties there! He looked like someone past his late fifties!

You know nothing of genetics! You just parrot other lemmings in here.

If you want to talk about genetics on any capacity, look up Jack Lalanne. All these Mentzes and Oliva and whoever else you might bring up are inferiors compared to this guy.

FYI 275 and 350 are miles away in terms of bench press.



How old or sick he looked in his forties says NOTHIHG about his genetic potential to gain muscle mass when he was healthier. The guy had very long muscle bellies and naturally thicker frame. His physique was far above 99% of the other steroid users. You think anyone who uses steroids looks like Mentzer? LOL You are a clueless to put it mildly. Very, very few people who take steroids today carry anywhere near the kind of muscle and density that Mentzer attained. Your average steroid user will put on about 25 pounds of muscle in most cases. Some guys with better genetics, good response and receptors will put on a bit more with them, but if you think that will transform them into Oliva or Mentzer or Viator or Arnold, etc. you are delusional. It does not happen which is why these guys are still talked about today: they are very rare and few people ever looked like that no matter what they took or trained.

Of course, there is a difference between 275 vs 350. However, my friend had good genetics, but was not a genetic freak. It's very conceivable someone with great genetics who matures early enough could posses extreme strength at 15. That photo of him was rather evident.



I would reserve the term delusional and clueless for someone like yourself. Enjoy your fairy tales about genetically "gifted" steroid users.

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entsminger

Virginia, USA

kulitsa wrote:
farhad wrote:
K,

Now I am curious, where can I find pics of Mentzer after he got off steroids? Preferably one without clothes on.I've only seen him with his baggy gym pants and sweatshirt. Can you post them here or provide link?

thanks,
f

There was a ton on Facebook, in Dorian's thread, he looked terrible in most of them. There is video on YouTube where he is training some Italian guy, same result.

I do not think he ever took his sweatshirt off, he was just way out of shape. Good old Ahnuld looked way better in the same age than MM.

Look up a video of him training Marcus Reinhardt, that was filmed somewhere in the nineties, so he must have been in his mid forties. He looks in there like he is in late fifties. By that time genetics evaporated. We have guys in this forum who are in their late forties or even mid fifties and they look 100 times better than the genetically gifted MM did.


===Scott==
Oh, we are back on this genetic kick again. For one who professes to know so much about genetics you sure say some strange stuff. By the time Mike Mentzer was in his forties his body was rebelling to all the drugs etc he had exposed his body to not to mention his genetic predispositions to heart issues and kidney trouble. He was smoking etc and didn't give a fig at that point what he looked like. Yea he looked like crap, great genetics will only carry you past so much physical abuse not to mention the mental issues he had.
Who in your opinion does have good genetics? If Jack Lalanne, who I think you say had good genetics, had treated his body as Mentzer had he'd most likely have crumbled ages before he died.
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