MB Madaera
Lost 31.7 lbs fat
Built 11.7 lbs muscle


Chris Madaera
Built 9 lbs muscle


Keelan Parham
Lost 30 lbs fat
Built 4 lbs muscle


Bob Marchesello
Lost 23.55 lbs fat
Built 8.55 lbs muscle


Jeff Turner
Lost 25.5 lbs fat


Jeanenne Darden
Lost 26 lbs fat
Built 3 lbs muscle


Ted Tucker
Lost 41 lbs fat
Built 4 lbs muscle

 
 

Determine the Length of Your Workouts

Evaluate Your Progress

Keep Warm-Up in Perspective


ARCHIVES >>

"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

Mission Statement

H.I.T. Acceptable Use Policy

Privacy Policy

Credits

LOG IN FORUM MAIN REGISTER SEARCH
Friction In My New Pulldown Machine
1 | 2 | Next | Last
Author
Rating
Options

coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

So just purchased a new Star Trac "Instinct" Pulldown Machine off Ebay. Kevlar belt attached to a weight stack.

This thing, even after me lubing EVERY moving part, is LOADED with friction, and it's driving me nuts.

It's NOT coming form the guide rods or the weight plates teflon inserts. Weights float up and down guide-rods just fine if I do it by hand, independent of the kevlar belt action.

The two hinge points have been totally lubed, so that's not the issue either.

I believe the friction is coming from the 7 black, round "pulleys" the kevlar belt meanders around. I have removed all 7, and they do not spin very freely. Even after me lubing the heck out of them. So that is 7 points of friction, all adding up to way too much friction overall.

Are these round pulleys what people are talking about when they say bushings have a lot more friction than bearings? If so, where can I buy pulleys with bearings? They seem to be a fairly standard kinda thing, so I don't guess they have to tbe same brand, as long as the size is the same?

Any help is appreciated. I spent over 1k on this unit, and it sucks not having it work right.
Open User Options Menu

Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

A friend has a multi-machine with several of those black pulleys. I had the same problem... lubed to the hilt, and it has that dragging stickiness to it. I think it's just too many contact points and there's nothing you can do about it unless you can figure out a way to revamp the design of the machine by removing some pulleys and shortening the belt/cables.
Open User Options Menu

Nautilus1975

coach-jeff wrote:
So just purchased a new Star Trac "Instinct" Pulldown Machine off Ebay. Kevlar belt attached to a weight stack.

This thing, even after me lubing EVERY moving part, is LOADED with friction, and it's driving me nuts.

It's NOT coming form the guide rods or the weight plates teflon inserts. Weights float up and down guide-rods just fine if I do it by hand, independent of the kevlar belt action.

The two hinge points have been totally lubed, so that's not the issue either.

I believe the friction is coming from the 7 black, round "pulleys" the kevlar belt meanders around. I have removed all 7, and they do not spin very freely. Even after me lubing the heck out of them. So that is 7 points of friction, all adding up to way too much friction overall.

Are these round pulleys what people are talking about when they say bushings have a lot more friction than bearings? If so, where can I buy pulleys with bearings? They seem to be a fairly standard kinda thing, so I don't guess they have to tbe same brand, as long as the size is the same?

Any help is appreciated. I spent over 1k on this unit, and it sucks not having it work right.


Are you trying to tell me that the current 2014 Star Trac Instinct line doesn't have bearings in all the spinning parts?

Open User Options Menu

coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

Brian Johnston wrote:
A friend has a multi-machine with several of those black pulleys. I had the same problem... lubed to the hilt, and it has that dragging stickiness to it. I think it's just too many contact points and there's nothing you can do about it unless you can figure out a way to revamp the design of the machine by removing some pulleys and shortening the belt/cables.


You might be right.

I actually looked at seeing if some of the pulleys might be able to the removed without affecting the proper working of the machine, but no such luck.

Open User Options Menu

coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

Nautilus1975 wrote:


Are you trying to tell me that the current 2014 Star Trac Instinct line doesn't have bearings in all the spinning parts?



That's the thing...I do not know how to tell a bearing from a bushing.

I removed all the pulleys, and they were NOT lubed AT ALL. So I lubed the heck out of them by literally sinking them in 10W/30 motor oil, and spinning the inner "shaft" to work lubricant down in there. Then cleaned them up and put them back on. It helped a bit, but still really dragging.

Perhaps they are bearings, but just total crap?

I will call the company Monday, to see if they offer a lower friction replacement pulley for it. it's only a year or two old.

Is there a way to tell, at a glance, if the pulley has a bushing or bearing?

Above is a photo of my new friction loaded pulldown.
Open User Options Menu

coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

Here's a company that sells pulleys for gym equipment. Perhaps I can find something in their inventory.

BTW - I have no financial interest in this company, nor do I even know them.

http://www.exercise-equipment-...
Open User Options Menu

Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

I thought it was more complicated than that. Is it possible that some of the joints are screwed too tight? What if you were to 'loosen' things up a bit?
Open User Options Menu

coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

Yeah, also tried loosening things up a bit, but did not help. I have emailed the company about this issue, and will be interested to see how they respond.
Open User Options Menu

Nautilus1975

coach-jeff wrote:
Nautilus1975 wrote:


Are you trying to tell me that the current 2014 Star Trac Instinct line doesn't have bearings in all the spinning parts?



That's the thing...I do not know how to tell a bearing from a bushing.

I removed all the pulleys, and they were NOT lubed AT ALL. So I lubed the heck out of them by literally sinking them in 10W/30 motor oil, and spinning the inner "shaft" to work lubricant down in there. Then cleaned them up and put them back on. It helped a bit, but still really dragging.

Perhaps they are bearings, but just total crap?

I will call the company Monday, to see if they offer a lower friction replacement pulley for it. it's only a year or two old.

Is there a way to tell, at a glance, if the pulley has a bushing or bearing?

Above is a photo of my new friction loaded pulldown.



If you have an "inner shaft' that turns while the pulley is held solid then it is a bearing and if it that tight it is junk

A bushing will not trun independent of a pulley or gear - it is one with the item

You can't lube that machine anywhere besides where it has fittings for lube and by wiping the guide rods with break free. If there are bearings in the pullies they are sealed and will not take lube. Replace the bearings or call Star Trac and get new ones
Open User Options Menu

Nautilus1975

Brian Johnston wrote:
I thought it was more complicated than that. Is it possible that some of the joints are screwed too tight? What if you were to 'loosen' things up a bit?


He said he took them off and dunked them in oil and they still were tight
Open User Options Menu

Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

But he didn't say that he re-tightened the shit out of them or had them hanging floppy loose, did he? Save your petty bullshit for someone else... my comment was not directed to you.
Open User Options Menu

MikaelPR

Jeff
When I'm traveling I often use the new nice, sleek Life Fitness, Magnum, or whatever line the hotel has in it's "5 star fitness center". I'm always struck by how smooth (even), yet friction laden these pieces are. They all seem to have several pulleys like your pulldown. My guess is the pulleys are the culprit, but I wouldn't doubt the articulations are bushings (and possibly steel as opposed to bronze) as well. Pulleys are easy to replace, Efson/Fenner makes the "cheap, crowned pulleys", Jeff Muehl hates, but might be better than the stock pulleys on your machine. Or, maybe the pulleys Jeff made for RenEx would fit your machine (?).
Open User Options Menu

coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

So starting to sound like crappy bearings then. Should be easy to replace.

Yeah I had thought maybe I tightened the the bolt that goes through the pulleys, and attaches them to frame, too tight, thereby inhibiting their ability to turn freely. But even when totally removed from machine, they do not spin very well.

Live and learn. NEVER buy a machine from a brand you are not well acquainted without first trying it out in person.
Open User Options Menu

indexit

MikaelPR wrote:
Jeff
When I'm traveling I often use the new nice, sleek Life Fitness, Magnum, or whatever line the hotel has in it's "5 star fitness center". I'm always struck by how smooth (even), yet friction laden these pieces are. They all seem to have several pulleys like your pulldown. My guess is the pulleys are the culprit, but I wouldn't doubt the articulations are bushings (and possibly steel as opposed to bronze) as well. Pulleys are easy to replace, Efson/Fenner makes the "cheap, crowned pulleys", Jeff Muehl hates, but might be better than the stock pulleys on your machine. Or, maybe the pulleys Jeff made for RenEx would fit your machine (?).


Ha,

Hate might be a little strong. In the context of being the "ultimate" those plastic pulleys are not all that and bag of chips. But they are affordable, have a roller bearing in them and don't cause chordal action.

The pulleys I made for RenEx are much higher performance, but radically expensive as one offs.

How fast do you want to go... How much money do you have? All any of this comes down to. Results on muscle gain unknown..

I don't have an objection to using the plastic ones in the context of cost benefit. Depends on what you are after...

I wish someone would make a nice cheap flat pulley with bearings that could just be swapped out. I could have them made, but the problem is -- to get the cost down one has to make a lot of them.

jeff

Open User Options Menu

Nautilus1975

Can you even press the bearings out of those cheap plastic pulleys or are they bonded in place?

If you could get them out you may be able to find a non sealed unit that is has far less stiction - the seals on the sealed bearings are tighter than the bearing itself many times
Open User Options Menu

AShortt

Ontario, CAN

That's a drag ;p but fixable I think by just changing to better pulleys. This is one of the reasons I have stuck only to buying Nautilus as the quality has always been dependable even with all the various generations. Too much equipment has been made to look and operate in a superficial manner. In no time the thin steel dents, the paint fades and the actual mechanical moving parts wear out super fast. It's no wonder machine training has fallen from popularity.

Regards,
Andrew
Open User Options Menu

coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

AShortt wrote:
That's a drag ;p but fixable I think by just changing to better pulleys. This is one of the reasons I have stuck only to buying Nautilus as the quality has always been dependable even with all the various generations. Too much equipment has been made to look and operate in a superficial manner. In no time the thin steel dents, the paint fades and the actual mechanical moving parts wear out super fast. It's no wonder machine training has fallen from popularity.

Regards,
Andrew


Sure. Replacing/fixing wore out machines is time consuming and very expensive.

My old 2ST machines still look very good, and perform very well. I imagine Hammer equipment also lasts forever.

I'm reading a book by John Turner, entitled "The Path of Most Resistance," which gets into the technical history of Nautilus machines quite a bit. He says Arthur described the machines as being overbuilt to "convict standards" - i.e. built super tough to last 100 years if maintained.

Open User Options Menu

coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

Nautilus1975 wrote:
Can you even press the bearings out of those cheap plastic pulleys or are they bonded in place?

If you could get them out you may be able to find a non sealed unit that is has far less stiction - the seals on the sealed bearings are tighter than the bearing itself many times


They're stuck in there. I'm going to go to a place here in town that may have better replacement pulley's.

Open User Options Menu

coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

Just got this email back from Star Trac, regarding my pulldown machine.


"I would love to help your get the pull down machine functioning up to standards. First to answer your question a bushing is a type of bearing, some people use the terms interchangeably and often incorrectly. Bushings are designed to provide a smooth cylindrical plane on which parts can spin with reduced friction. Bushings are sometime referred to as plain bearings When most people say bearing, they mean a radial bearing or a cylinder inside of cylinder with rollers in between to reduce friction. Think of a ball bearing. The amount of friction reduced from a radial bearing or a bushing will very on application, materials, etc... I will save you the long winded explanation here. I would like to focus on resolving the issue with your machine.

Can you provide me with serial number of the machine? I would like to setup a warranty work order to have one of our technicians inspect the unit."

So hopefully they'll get someone here to fix it.
Open User Options Menu

AShortt

Ontario, CAN

coach-jeff wrote:
Just got this email back from Star Trac, regarding my pulldown machine.


"I would love to help your get the pull down machine functioning up to standards. First to answer your question a bushing is a type of bearing, some people use the terms interchangeably and often incorrectly. Bushings are designed to provide a smooth cylindrical plane on which parts can spin with reduced friction. Bushings are sometime referred to as plain bearings When most people say bearing, they mean a radial bearing or a cylinder inside of cylinder with rollers in between to reduce friction. Think of a ball bearing. The amount of friction reduced from a radial bearing or a bushing will very on application, materials, etc... I will save you the long winded explanation here. I would like to focus on resolving the issue with your machine.

Can you provide me with serial number of the machine? I would like to setup a warranty work order to have one of our technicians inspect the unit."

So hopefully they'll get someone here to fix it.


That's good to hear.

Regards,
Andrew
Open User Options Menu

Nautilus1975

Sounds like they are already trying to defend a modern current production machine line that is being produced with SUB industry standard bushings instead of bearings as a cost saving measure by trying to rationalize a bushing is still somehow a bearing....


So I guess you asked them point blank if the machine had bearings OR bushings in the pulleys and this was the answer you received - instead of, no, our machines do not have bearings in the pulleys....

Hilarious. I was going to pick up a full set of Instinct for a guy that I had sold several circuits to in the past to help him out and now I will now have to re evaluate this - you can let them know that if you want to....


Open User Options Menu

entsminger

Virginia, USA

coach-jeff wrote:
So just purchased a new Star Trac "Instinct" Pulldown Machine off Ebay. Kevlar belt attached to a weight stack.

This thing, even after me lubing EVERY moving part, is LOADED with friction, and it's driving me nuts.

It's NOT coming form the guide rods or the weight plates teflon inserts. Weights float up and down guide-rods just fine if I do it by hand, independent of the kevlar belt action.

The two hinge points have been totally lubed, so that's not the issue either.

I believe the friction is coming from the 7 black, round "pulleys" the kevlar belt meanders around. I have removed all 7, and they do not spin very freely. Even after me lubing the heck out of them. So that is 7 points of friction, all adding up to way too much friction overall.

Are these round pulleys what people are talking about when they say bushings have a lot more friction than bearings? If so, where can I buy pulleys with bearings? They seem to be a fairly standard kinda thing, so I don't guess they have to tbe same brand, as long as the size is the same?

Any help is appreciated. I spent over 1k on this unit, and it sucks not having it work right.


===Scott==
So you go out and spend 1k on something with out having tried it out before hand? I've got a home made delt machine that will build your delts to look like coconuts over night!! Just send $10,000 cash to Arizona Beach Front Properties.com, ha ha.
Open User Options Menu

coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

Well kinda tough to try out equipment bought off Ebay, and shipped from Indiana. The seller had a good Ebay rating, and I thought Star Trac had a reputation for making decent stuff. Live and learn.

What really kills me is that right after buying my friction machine, a nice Nautilus Explode pulldown became available for just a bit more $$. Sure wish that was sitting in my studio right now instead.
Open User Options Menu

AShortt

Ontario, CAN

coach-jeff wrote:
Well kinda tough to try out equipment bought off Ebay, and shipped from Indiana. The seller had a good Ebay rating, and I thought Star Trac had a reputation for making decent stuff. Live and learn.

What really kills me is that right after buying my friction machine, a nice Nautilus Explode pulldown became available for just a bit more $$. Sure wish that was sitting in my studio right now instead.


In my experience it is all about patience and checking leads everyday. I way over paid in the beginning for my Nautilus and now regularly find good deals for 50 to 75% less. In most cases buying new is not the way to go. Recycle ;n) glad you are getting some response though.

Regards,
Andrew
Open User Options Menu

darcycook

i have one star strac machine china junk!now re branded nautilus leverage to bad gives nautilus a bad image imo
Open User Options Menu
1 | 2 | Next | Last
Administrators Online: Mod Phoenix
H.I.T. Acceptable Use Policy