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Making Faces While Lifting. What is This Crap?
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coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=knupnhUXSm0

I'm no Ray Mentzer in the strength department, and even I can overhead press a Nautilus OH-Press's entire stack for strict reps, without making drama-faces. In fact, I could do that when I was 19.

Gotta believe this is just bad acting?
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coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

And what is up with the underhand grip on shoulder press, and hands coming way inside elbow-line? Looks more like a tricep exercise.

No disrespect intended. Ray, I've read, was a VERY strong dude obviously. But the exercise form in this video is shockingly bad.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

I sometimes do an overhead press with an underhand grip. I don't feel a thing in the triceps... all delt. By the way, I have some clients with shoulder issues, and they are able to press in that manner, and sometimes with a neutral grip, but often can't do overhand (pronated) presses because of a particular shoulder issue. Less weight is required on the underhand (supinated) press.
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Tridentine

It works for him.
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coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

I also do underhand shoulder presses, but not with parallel-grip like in the video. More like an "Arnold Press". The way it's being done in this video looks looks very orthopedically unsound. Heck just trying to twist my hands into that contorted position hurts with NO weight.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

coach-jeff wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=knupnhUXSm0

I'm no Ray Mentzer in the strength department, and even I can overhead press a Nautilus OH-Press's entire stack for strict reps, without making drama-faces. In fact, I could do that when I was 19.

Gotta believe this is just bad acting?


==Scott==
Wow,another fellow on here who is incredibly strong enough to press the whole stack for strict reps.By your avatar one would never guess at one time you were that strong.

Making faces just comes naturally when pushing hard. I still have mixed feelings about this stoic look one is supposed to have when pushing it hard like Jones or the REN-EX club advocates. I know it's not good for someone with high blood pressure to clench teeth and look like Arnold when you train so I try and remember to relax my face but it's not as fun as just letting your face do what it does naturally when the going gets tough.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

My apologies... I made my comment without looking at the video (I was expecting a different position). I have that machine and will try it; although, I know what you're saying.
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coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

entsminger wrote:


==Scott==
Wow,another fellow on here who is incredibly strong enough to press the whole stack for strict reps.By your avatar one would never guess at one time you were that strong.

Making faces just comes naturally when pushing hard. I still have mixed feelings about this stoic look one is supposed to have when pushing it hard like Jones or the REN-EX club advocates.


How can you judge my physique while wearing a long-sleeve shirt?

I'm not in danger currently of winning any BB contest, but I have a decent amount of muscle on me.

And I've always been fairly strong for my size. This was evident even in grade school. I suspect I have high neurological efficiency that allows me to tap into a higher percentage of my available muscle than average.

In fact, I can STILL press an entire 250 pound stack on shoulder press for good reps. Not as many as when young but probably about 5 reps. Could do 10 reps in 20's. Not that big a deal really. 250 pounds just ain't that much weight on a machine.

I can also get clean reps with entire stack on nautilus 10-degree chest machine (though it hurts my shoulder to do so), 2ST bench press, and 2ST Row. Can also easily do whole stack with my friction loaded pulldown machine. Again, not really that big a deal.

Lots of guys on this board got me totally smoked in the strength department. I'm simply above average strong for a 200 pound, almost 50 year old, chronically sleep-deprived man.

I guess my post must've come across as bragging? Nothing to brag about really, as I don't consider doing 250 pounds for reps on a MACHINE shoulder press to even be that impressive. With free-weights, heck yes. But not on a machine. Branch Warren, who shoulder presses with 3-wheels on free weights, has nothing to fear from me for sure. (<:

But I can easily post a video of me stacking-out nautilus machines, if my honesty is being called into question.

Also, I entitled my post "what is this crap"...a moderator changed the title of my post to being about faces. I'm guessing for search engine bait.

Sure, we all make faces when really straining. I do NOT believe in that stoic face crap either.

My point was that Ray can clearly lift that stack with EASE. He is faking for the camera in this video to make it look like high intensity training. I gotta believe he could've done a minimum of 20 reps with an entire 250 pound stack.

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coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

Tridentine wrote:
It works for him.


Yeah, and what doesn't work for a genetic mutant on the juice, right?

Heck, just look at at how built Herschel Walker and Mike Tyson got from just bodyweight exercises. And probably with ZERO steroids. Although both may have used later in careers. But who knows.
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AShortt

Ontario, CAN

Everyone is different especially in shoulder action. As for perceived difficulty we can't say just how prefatigued he is going into this.

Regards,
Andrew
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coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

Regarding "incredible strength" on machines...consider also that Leslie Stahl and Barbara Walters, who both do SuperSlow training, can apparently both leg-press (On a Med-X)with about 400 pounds.

But neither could likely squat for many or any reps with a 135 pound BB.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Using that grip on that machine, you definitely get a more intense delt contraction... but while using a bit less than I usually do (with a neutral grip), I could feel an odd strain on the inner ball/socket that I did not like. But that's me.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Lots of guys on this board got me totally smoked in the strength department. I'm simply above average strong for a 200 pound, almost 50 year old, chronically sleep-deprived man.

==Scott==
Alot of guys on this board talk big but I doubt many can do whole stacks on older Nautilus machines.Stacking one of those machines is a big deal as far as I'm concerned. I was there working out next to Mike Mentzer and he could barely do the stack on a double shoulder and he was way stronger than most anybody.

I can tell alot by just looking at a fellow even with a bulky sweater on but some guys as you say have great tendon strength or something that allows them to lift way more than it looks like they should be able to. There's this kid near me who you can hardly tell he ever worked out and yet he can bench and lift weights easier than a guy twice his size.
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coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

One of the strongest guys I ever trained weighed about 165 pounds. He could almost stack all kinds of machines at a perfect 3/3 rep speed.
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coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

I guess it's "Power of 10" that Barbara Walters actually does. Same thing, right?

https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=MYfBtoRSEpE
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coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

I find it almost impossible to believe that Mike or Ray would struggle with a 250 pound stack on the double shoulder machine. Even if they added 50 pounds to it (pretty common with a lot of Nautilus machine owners)to make it a 300 pound stack, I can't see it.

I guess maybe if it was RIGHT AFTER laterals. Or with that weird grip Ray uses in the video, which clearly puts you in a weaker biomechanical position.

Bill Pearl says he once saw mike curl the whole darn stack on a Nautilus bicep curl machine with ONE ARM. HE says after Mike left, he walked over to the same machine to see what he could do with it, and admits he could not do even ONE REP with BOTH ARMS.

And Bill did strong man exhibitions!

So those mentzer boys were just freakishly strong by all accounts.

There is no way that, after less than one year of training, my ectomorphic, non-steroid using butt was even remotely as strong as Mike on ANY exercise.

Above is a photo of me at about age 16, after maybe a year or so of lifting my cheap plastic Sears weights. Not exactly Mr. Olympia genetics there.

Whereas most photos I've seen of Mr O's at about that age show a lad already built like heck.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

I guess maybe if it was RIGHT AFTER laterals. Or with that weird grip Ray uses in the video,

==Scott==
Yea, it was right after laterals as that's what was generally done then. I can't remember the grip?
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coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

And I guess it was actually Ray, rather than Mike, who Bill Pearl saw curl the whole stack with one arm. Apparently Ray was stronger than Mike overall.

And here's a quote from Darden himself regarding Ray's strength from an interview he did.

"Question: In your book, you also mention Mike?s younger brother Ray. Ray Mentzer was even stronger than Mike, right?

Answer: Yes he was. While Mike showed little desire to train intensely in Lake Helen, Ray was just the opposite. He was frequently up for a hard workout. I trained him multiple times. After a while, we would have to pin additional weight on most of the Nautilus machines. He was that strong. Ray handled the entire weight stack, 500 pounds, on the Nautilus duo-squat machine with ease. I never witnessed anyone else get a single rep with the entire stack ? and there were a lot of big, strong athletes who tried.

Ray was the first bodybuilder I ever saw who weighed 250 pounds or more, in fairly lean condition. There are a few in that category today, but there weren?t any in 1983.

Joe Mullen, a former Nautilus club owner, recently told me that he saw Ray go through a HIT workout in 1999. ?On our Nautilus leg-extension machine, Ray did 290 pounds for 10 good repetitions,? Mullen said, as he paused and cleared his throat.

In my mind, I?m thinking . . . ?290 pounds on the Nautilus leg extension machine, I believe I?ve done that much.?

Having cleared his throat, Mullen continued . . . ?With one leg.?

That?s right, Ray Mentzer did single leg extensions in a normal positive-negative manner with 290 pounds, which is equivalent to handling 580 pounds with both legs.

That reinforced to me that Ray Mentzer was the strongest man I?ve ever trained, and I?ve been training people for more than 40 years."

===========================

So yeah, even with the weird grip and the pre-exhaust, I don't believe Ray was struggling that much on the overhead shoulder press.

I actually had not even bothered watching the rest of the video before posting, but have now, and the rest is a bit more believable and shows better form overall.
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coach-jeff

Louisiana, USA

Here's Bill Pearl's direct quote about Ray's strength.

" The strongest bodybuilder that I've ever trained with was probably Franco Columbu on specific lifts, but the guy I've seen handle the most weight on all sets and repetitions on all the exercises was Ray Mentzer. I saw Ray training at a gym over in Germany a few years ago, and he was using about 240 pounds on a Nautilus biceps machine. Ray took that thing and sat down and with one arm curled that weight up. When Ray left to take a shower I went over to that machine and with two arms I could not curl it - and I consider myself strong. All of a sudden my attitude towards Ray changed tremendously."

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entsminger

Virginia, USA

coach-jeff wrote:
Here's Bill Pearl's direct quote about Ray's strength.

" The strongest bodybuilder that I've ever trained with was probably Franco Columbu on specific lifts, but the guy I've seen handle the most weight on all sets and repetitions on all the exercises was Ray Mentzer. I saw Ray training at a gym over in Germany a few years ago, and he was using about 240 pounds on a Nautilus biceps machine. Ray took that thing and sat down and with one arm curled that weight up. When Ray left to take a shower I went over to that machine and with two arms I could not curl it - and I consider myself strong. All of a sudden my attitude towards Ray changed tremendously."



==Scott==
Yup, there's no question Ray was a super freak of strength but when we come back down off Mt Olympus the whole stack on Nautilus machines for us meer mortals is still a great feat.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

coach-jeff wrote:
Here's Bill Pearl's direct quote about Ray's strength.

" The strongest bodybuilder that I've ever trained with was probably Franco Columbu on specific lifts, but the guy I've seen handle the most weight on all sets and repetitions on all the exercises was Ray Mentzer. I saw Ray training at a gym over in Germany a few years ago, and he was using about 240 pounds on a Nautilus biceps machine. Ray took that thing and sat down and with one arm curled that weight up. When Ray left to take a shower I went over to that machine and with two arms I could not curl it - and I consider myself strong. All of a sudden my attitude towards Ray changed tremendously."



==Scott==
What I find the most interesting about Ray Mentzer is how little he really did with his great strength and build. I guess he won a few titles? and worked for Nautilus a short while before being fired but for someone with such great genetics it seems he didn't do much with it. I remember some article where Jones was demonstrating some machines to some prospective buyers and he asked Ray to come up and demo the machine. Ray said no and shortly after Jones fired him. Imagine being a bodybuilder on the Nautilus staff and being asked to just come up and demo some pullovers or whatever. All you ever had to do was workout and do some videos and jump when Jones said jump and you say no.
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highheavy

Tennessee, USA

coach-jeff wrote:
Here's Bill Pearl's direct quote about Ray's strength.

" The strongest bodybuilder that I've ever trained with was probably Franco Columbu on specific lifts, but the guy I've seen handle the most weight on all sets and repetitions on all the exercises was Ray Mentzer. I saw Ray training at a gym over in Germany a few years ago, and he was using about 240 pounds on a Nautilus biceps machine. Ray took that thing and sat down and with one arm curled that weight up. When Ray left to take a shower I went over to that machine and with two arms I could not curl it - and I consider myself strong. All of a sudden my attitude towards Ray changed tremendously."



--------------------------

Hey Coach Jeff. The Multi Biceps was actually easier performed unilaterally - in my experience. I always chuckled when I read Pearl's quote.

As I remember, the original double shoulder as shown in that video was full of friction and very heavy. Don't recall seeing many people stack it and perform reps in a strict manner especially after pre exhaust with the laterals.

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Tridentine

"Joe Mullen, a former Nautilus club owner, recently told me that he saw Ray go through a HIT workout in 1999."

That is amazing strength considering he died about a year later.
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backtrack

If anything machines can be more of a struggle for some users because machines are one size fits all. Yeah, you can raise or lower a seat but that's about it.
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kurtvf

highheavy wrote:

--------------------------

Hey Coach Jeff. The Multi Biceps was actually easier performed unilaterally - in my experience. I always chuckled when I read Pearl's quote.





I thought of this too: The multi biceps/triceps machines are set up for duo/poly therefore the resistance is the same one hand or two. However I don't think there was ever a multi biceps machine with a stack other than 150 lbs. so I'm not sure if it was on a multi biceps machine........
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