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Drew-ing the Wrong Conclusion
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AShortt

Ontario, CAN

"High Density Training" is just marketing gobbledygook. High Intensity Training has always had a high "density" of work."

This caught my eye in the BDJ book thread because Drew and I have a long history of locking horns (and with Jay Horn as well lol). I bring this up not to bang heads again but to illustrate a long standing problem in the HIT community that most of us have witness. Moreover, it speaks to training and fitness in general.

Much like so many females sadly obsess over another females body type (bigger boned endomorphic wanting to be smaller boned and more ectomorphic) we HITters are too size centric (big and strong or big like a traditional B.B.er or both). We compare methodologies based on the body type of those promoting it and it gets us nowhere.

This is what is problematic with HIT and this is why we remain with the rest of the of the fitness industry ? outside of real medical healthcare. Don?t want to be part of medical healthcare fine but there is still no need to be so 1 dimensional and mentally lazy.

Drew Baye and I are the same size and when we compete we show our true muscle (or lack therefore lol). Drew?s brother may be a different body type he may have used gear who knows but comparisons are plain low brow fun that hold almost know relevant info. Drew does know his stuff however remains fixated on being as big and strong as possible. It appears he does this as almost an over reaction to not having a naturally big bodybuilder type physique. I relate because I have been there. If you overeat and train consolidation style you do get physically large and your lifts show significant number based increases. This is no different than when you get ripped you look more muscular in a picture than perhaps you appear in person. It is all just looks and superficiality. One is fat and skill based and the other lighting effects based on shadows.

I get really lean at least once a year just to check my symmetry and as a way to best gauge if I am actually making any ?shape? progress. It is tough to tell when intramuscular fat and fluid retention are always obfuscating measurements and look. I have caught my share of insults for being smaller now than I was in my thirties because I choose to stay a lot leaner year round. As I age (now 47) I find I simply do better in everyway by remaining at a lower bodyfat %. I have also been insulted even by family for looking older because the lack of fat and refusal to color my hair anymore, highlights my wrinkles and grey?s lol. As a typical HITter at heart I say too f-ing bad I like having a six pack, I like being agile with a reasonable strength to weight ratio and heck it?s my health at the end of the day. The day comes when you are wise to accept yourself?that is when the real change can take place IMO.

Drew has great ideas and I do appreciate his compact body weight based training approach as well as his understanding of proper recovery and safe movement. However his insistence on admonishing others ideas like Zone/Triangular/HDT etc. is inappropriate and unprofessional. This type of attitude is counterproductive to helping people get good results without abusing themselves unduly. Techniques which allow from greater adjustment and wider expression of exercise allow for individuals to better tune into their own personal situation. Which brings me back to the main point.

Copying others is fine provided you don?t take it too seriously. Experimenting and finding out what will keep you strong and fit and reaching your goals is just plain sensible. Nothing can help you if you cannot recognize your fundamental characteristics and nothing will help you tweak them slightly toward your want list if you don?t start with what you actually were born with?except maybe drugs but I don?t think drugs provide a permanent let alone healthy solution?but I am not a doctor.

The fact remains that all this comparison of methods and comparison of physiques should lead to new personal questions not just new personal convictions. We need to share because if all the answers already existed everyone would already have the formula to get whatever they want.

Keep in mind I use to be the type who over consumed and did the consolidation thing and I took my share of shots at some others HIT ideologies?I was immature and thin skinned about my slight build and caught off guard by the fake boldness of people behind the keyboard. Furthermore, I was miss interpreting a lot of what I read and was reading too much into how things were said rather than what was said.

Playing basketball will not make you tall and training to get another?s physique is just as ignorant. If you can show some progress over time fine that is a reasonable sign you are accurate in your thinking but even this is not actual proof. We can?t prove anything except our own closed mindedness by all this reliance on comparison, let?s debate techniques and stop with the proof feuds. I want to know things like why doesn?t Fred Hahn use the ARX system for Slow Burn rather than why he thinks his physique is better than mine.

Regards,
Andrew
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

When I first started the IART, I wanted it to be an international club of sorts... hence the name International ASSOCIATION of resistance trainers. I must say that some really great people were part of the organization insofar as writing articles and contributing whenever asked, such as Matt Brzycki, Ken Mannie, Dr. Darden, and several others. But apart from a few who are confident in who they are, and at the same time humble (not knowing everything and eager to learn something new), it's a lot of bickering and cheap shots in order to knock one person down so that s/he can stand a bit taller.
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Slight build?! That off-season pick doesn't look that way, Andrew.
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HeavyHitter32

I've tried the type of stuff Drew recommends. I just didn't find that stuff optimal.
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coalman426

You don't look bad in the photo.you can get bigger but you woulnt.the reason is you don't think you can.instead of sticking with the same stuff,same ideas about over training,looking for the magic cadence that doesn't exist or the one set miracle do something out of the box.try german volume training or something along those lines for ninety days.if that doesn't work there's always the magic supplements.the possibility are endless.you can always go back to hit.most importantly realize you've gotten into contest shape something most people,myself included will.never do.you can get bigger,a lot bigger but you have to believe it.someone on this site told me to thank my parents for my arms one time.I have a cousin who lifts my arms are bigger than his but no where near as peaked.everybody has pulse and minuses but at the end of the day your parents aren't going to do the pull ups and curls for you.that's how I see it.I will never accept less than what I want and if I don't achieve my goals I'll know I went down swinging.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Believing something doesn't make it true. When I was in my teens I believed one day I would be on the Mr. Olympia stage... that every routine I tried in the magazines would pack on muscle, etc. It never happened... yet I believed.
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Roadrunner

coalman426 wrote:
You don't look bad in the photo.you can get bigger but you woulnt.the reason is you don't think you can.instead of sticking with the same stuff,same ideas about over training,looking for the magic cadence that doesn't exist or the one set miracle do something out of the box.try german volume training or something along those lines for ninety days.if that doesn't work there's always the magic supplements.the possibility are endless.you can always go back to hit.most importantly realize you've gotten into contest shape something most people,myself included will.never do.you can get bigger,a lot bigger but you have to believe it.someone on this site told me to thank my parents for my arms one time.I have a cousin who lifts my arms are bigger than his but no where near as peaked.everybody has pulse and minuses but at the end of the day your parents aren't going to do the pull ups and curls for you.that's how I see it.I will never accept less than what I want and if I don't achieve my goals I'll know I went down swinging.


Lol, you'll never be big enough, not even if you take drugs. Go ahead, enjoy being the dog chasing his tail if that's what you want.

Eventually this never ending quest for physical supremacy becomes a game for people who have a hard time progressing intellectually. And the only one who cares is them. Aren't there better things to do?
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DNAHelix

New York, USA

coalman426 wrote:
... at the end of the day your parents aren't going to do the pull ups and curls for you.that's how I see it.I will never accept less than what I want and if I don't achieve my goals I'll know I went down swinging.


Thank you Coalman, so much for all the genetics blabber in here. Dorian Yates said "if guys with genetics worked hard, I would have no chance!"
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DNAHelix

New York, USA

Andrew, you do not look small in that picture. In my personal opinion, you look great. Just like Coalman said, you can be bigger. The question is, do you really need to? Present day bodybuilders look outright grotesque. There is nothing cool about their looks, plus as a Nak Muay, I can tell you one thing about these guys for sure, zero stamina, little to no speed, terrible in clinch with very rare exceptions. On the contrary guys of your physique do really well.

If I had to choose a bodybuilder who deserves the Sandow trophy it would be Joe Manganiello. He has a spectacular body development. Look him up.
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DNAHelix

New York, USA

Brian Johnston wrote:
Believing something doesn't make it true. When I was in my teens I believed one day I would be on the Mr. Olympia stage... that every routine I tried in the magazines would pack on muscle, etc. It never happened... yet I believed.


You might have been a "True Believer" like Dr. Ken. Have you heard that story?
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coalman426

Listen to roadrunner talking about intellect as an excuse for failure.this is a bodybuilding forum.the whole point is to get bigger.I must have done something right seeing how I'm at least twice as big as baye.you can join the chess club ill keep makeing gains.lol
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coalman426

Brian you may never be Mr.Olympia but look what happened you made a living doing what you love and have one of the best bodies on here.basically your a pro bodybuilder.the longer I'm on this site the more I realize I may not spell good but I'm mentally ahead of ninety percent of the guys on here.that will miss people off but I know it's the truth.it's the same way at work.people are soft.
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Roadrunner

Failure? How do you know?

Those who deny genetics is a major factor are usually those who build easy and then pat themselves on the back because they think they're willing to do things that others aren't (including Yates). Silly! If they would just try GVT, Lol!
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coalman426

Sure genetics are a factor but anyone can improve from yates to the guy that started the forum.gvt was just a suggestion.but let me ask you this.if you don't think you can get better or improve why do it.the whole point is to try to get bigger.it is never ending that's the whole point.people that do well with it have that mentality,you don't.if you don't think gvt works I have a proposition.let's take pics and post them with papers tomorrow.I'll do the gvt for six weeks you do your hit.at the end we repost with dated papers and see who made more improvement.works for me because whether I win or not if I make improvement I win.that's how I think.that's the attitude.
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duesingbc

Illinois, USA

coalman426 wrote:
You don't look bad in the photo.you can get bigger but you woulnt.the reason is you don't think you can.instead of sticking with the same stuff,same ideas about over training,looking for the magic cadence that doesn't exist or the one set miracle do something out of the box.try german volume training or something along those lines for ninety days.if that doesn't work there's always the magic supplements.the possibility are endless.you can always go back to hit.most importantly realize you've gotten into contest shape something most people,myself included will.never do.you can get bigger,a lot bigger but you have to believe it.someone on this site told me to thank my parents for my arms one time.I have a cousin who lifts my arms are bigger than his but no where near as peaked.everybody has pulse and minuses but at the end of the day your parents aren't going to do the pull ups and curls for you.that's how I see it.I will never accept less than what I want and if I don't achieve my goals I'll know I went down swinging.


Coalman,

Here is the reason Drew wears baggy clothing instead of more form fitting material according to one of his responses from his site.

Drew stated "The reason I wear baggy clothes is to conceal the pistol I wear on my right side and the several extra magazines on my left. I always have these on me, and the law requires concealed weapons to be completely obscured from sight. Because of this I buy shirts that run a little large. If I wear form-fitting shirts the outlines of the pistol grip and the extra magazines are clearly visible. Being armed and having my weapons properly concealed is more important to me than impressing anyone with my shoulder to waist ratio."

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Average Al

coalman426 wrote:
Listen to roadrunner talking about intellect as an excuse for failure.this is a bodybuilding forum.the whole point is to get bigger.I must have done something right seeing how I'm at least twice as big as baye.you can join the chess club ill keep makeing gains.lol


Picking the right set of parents helps a lot....

You might want to pick up a copy of "The Sports Gene" by David Epstein. Might change your view of the world a bit.

If you don't want to buy the book, just read this chapter, which the NY Time conveniently has posted on line:

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/...ts-Gene-Ch6.pdf

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AShortt

Ontario, CAN

coalman426 wrote:
You don't look bad in the photo.you can get bigger but you woulnt.the reason is you don't think you can.instead of sticking with the same stuff,same ideas about over training,looking for the magic cadence that doesn't exist or the one set miracle do something out of the box.try german volume training or something along those lines for ninety days.if that doesn't work there's always the magic supplements.the possibility are endless.you can always go back to hit.most importantly realize you've gotten into contest shape something most people,myself included will.never do.you can get bigger,a lot bigger but you have to believe it.someone on this site told me to thank my parents for my arms one time.I have a cousin who lifts my arms are bigger than his but no where near as peaked.everybody has pulse and minuses but at the end of the day your parents aren't going to do the pull ups and curls for you.that's how I see it.I will never accept less than what I want and if I don't achieve my goals I'll know I went down swinging.


I use more variety than 99 percent of HITters lol. I get a bit bigger each year but without drugs I must focus on symmetry or size gains can actually make look smaller overall. Unlike Drew I live in more peaceful surroundings and if I must...I can rip pretty harshly without a weapon. ;n)

Regards,
Andrew
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Roadrunner

coalman426 wrote:
Sure genetics are a factor but anyone can improve from yates to the guy that started the forum.gvt was just a suggestion.but let me ask you this.if you don't think you can get better or improve why do it.the whole point is to try to get bigger.it is never ending that's the whole point.people that do well with it have that mentality,you don't.if you don't think gvt works I have a proposition.let's take pics and post them with papers tomorrow.I'll do the gvt for six weeks you do your hit.at the end we repost with dated papers and see who made more improvement.works for me because whether I win or not if I make improvement I win.that's how I think.that's the attitude.


Sure it may work. But the juice has to be worth the squeeze. GVT might make a 5-10% improvement on what I've got now, but take 3x+ as much work to get it. That might be worth it to a professional athlete or bodybuilder (someone who's livelihood is connected to having a little bit more mass), but not me. If all you have to gain from such an increase in training is a nice little wink from yourself as you look in the mirror (believe me, nobody else will care) and you still do it and say everyone else should too, you might need your head checked. Gifted builders will gain well on a HIT routine to a a certain point (and it will be evident that they are gifted) and then it will be up to them how far they want to take it with more training. If you don't see that "gift" early on, moving on to the next step (more training) rarely works out well.

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coalman426

I never said genes don't help or steroids.they do help but there not the end all.I'm simply saying that everyone on this forum can get bigger and improve.changes in diet routines and weak point training can go a long way.if your convinced that there can be no improvement it's time to throw in the towel and start collecting stamps.I'm not there yet and I may have better genes than some im no freak.I think what I have going for me are a lot of mistakes I've made.diet not training legs,alcohol.I'm at a point in my life that I have things under control and things are comeing together.I can't controll work or politics but I can controll my workouts and what I eat.I never wanted to be Mr. Olympia anyway just to look better on vacation.the only thing road runner is right about is my intellect.never had it never will.
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coalman426

Good for drew bay for exercising his gun rights.I keep mine under the seat of my pickup.lol
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

If I can no longer improve, then I work to maintain what I've worked so hard to develop. You can't tell me that someone 70 is going to improve when that person has been training since his teens. Therefore, should that person throw in the towel... stop exercising... and take up stamp collecting?

I think Drew wants to be Arthur Jones, who used to carry a sidearm. However, in Drew's case, the bagging clothing helps to conceal his love handles as much as his gun and magazine clips... the bagging clothing helps him to feel large and in charge.
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DNAHelix

New York, USA

duesingbc wrote:

Drew stated "The reason I wear baggy clothes is to conceal the pistol I wear on my right side and the several extra magazines on my left. I always have these on me, and the law requires concealed weapons to be completely obscured from sight. Because of this I buy shirts that run a little large. If I wear form-fitting shirts the outlines of the pistol grip and the extra magazines are clearly visible. Being armed and having my weapons properly concealed is more important to me than impressing anyone with my shoulder to waist ratio."



I knew something was wrong with this guy, I had to block him on Facebook, couldn't see his crazy rants no more. This, however, explains it all.
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

coalman426 wrote:
Good for drew bay for exercising his gun rights.I keep mine under the seat of my pickup.lol


Maybe he should just move out of the hood?

WTF is this cat doing, that he needs to give that much constant thought to being strapped?
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coalman426

Lol good one Simon.I thought in Texas everybody packs.Brian I can't totally disagree with you but can't agree either.the reason people buy your books is to try to improve.at least that's why I did.
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Roadrunner

simon-hecubus wrote:
coalman426 wrote:
Good for drew bay for exercising his gun rights.I keep mine under the seat of my pickup.lol

Maybe he should just move out of the hood?

WTF is this cat doing, that he needs to give that much constant thought to being strapped?


Preparing for the upcoming zombie apocalypse, duh! Remember to double tap, dawg.

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