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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
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Mentzer/Yates
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Bastion

I hadn't seen this before and figured this would be a good place to share it.

http://www.getbig.com/...?topic=476480.0

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entsminger

Virginia, USA

He launched a personal training business out of Gold?s and with Yates emerging as a future Mr. Olympia his Heavy Duty system could not have received greater validation. The savvy Mike hitched his beliefs to Yates? bandwagon

==Scott==
It's funny how the likes of Jones and Mentzer and others hitch them selves to some already huge behemoth to prove their system is the best.I know,I know, a non drug user guy with a chiseled 6 pack and 16 inch arms doesn't sell the product.
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Bastion

I recall Dorian openly endorsing Mike Mentzer in the early 90's. They were even going to open a clothing line together. They had shirts made up and everything. It seemed as though either Weider told Dorian to keep his distance from Mike, or, another story I was told years ago was that Mike resented Dorian because Dorian wouldn't go the extra mile and use Mike's exact routine.
I asked Mike during a phone consultation about Dorian and training IFBB pro's, and Mike quickly changed the subject and seemed a bit irked.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

==Scott==
It seems like ever since Grog the caveman started hawking his method of lifting elephant tusks three times a week there's always been someone to promote a form of working out that was the ultimate spinach and with it came a giant who supposedly built his muscles that way but in reality didn't. Charles Atlas with dynamic tension, Bob Hoffman, Weider, Jones,Trentine,Mentzer and god knows how many others fit that bill.I wonder if there is any single muscle building coach out there that has a champion caliber subject that can honestly say he did it that way only?
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HeavyHitter32

Bastion wrote:
I recall Dorian openly endorsing Mike Mentzer in the early 90's. They were even going to open a clothing line together. They had shirts made up and everything. It seemed as though either Weider told Dorian to keep his distance from Mike, or, another story I was told years ago was that Mike resented Dorian because Dorian wouldn't go the extra mile and use Mike's exact routine.
I asked Mike during a phone consultation about Dorian and training IFBB pro's, and Mike quickly changed the subject and seemed a bit irked.


I seem to recall an interview with Dorian somewhere from several years ago where he said it was just too little what Mike was suggesting at the time.
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Lioncourt

Mr. Heavy Duty Markus Reinhardt does not follow any of Mike's later routines. From what I've seen he's more like HD1 and even then throws in a couple more exercises per bodypart.

As an aside - anyone following the funny fight between Markus & Drew Baye on Facebook over who is the true heir to Mike?
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Lioncourt wrote:
Mr. Heavy Duty Markus Reinhardt does not follow any of Mike's later routines. From what I've seen he's more like HD1 and even then throws in a couple more exercises per bodypart.

As an aside - anyone following the funny fight between Markus & Drew Baye on Facebook over who is the true heir to Mike?


===Scott==
I'm not friends with either of them on face book so please tell us what the heck they are saying.By heir do they mean who quit bodybuilding crying I should have won and started smoking ,taking drugs and went off the deep end, ha ha. If nothing else this forum is good for laughs!!
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Lioncourt wrote:
Mr. Heavy Duty Markus Reinhardt does not follow any of Mike's later routines. From what I've seen he's more like HD1 and even then throws in a couple more exercises per bodypart.

As an aside - anyone following the funny fight between Markus & Drew Baye on Facebook over who is the true heir to Mike?


Which group is that in?
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Bastion

Lioncourt wrote:
Mr. Heavy Duty Markus Reinhardt does not follow any of Mike's later routines. From what I've seen he's more like HD1 and even then throws in a couple more exercises per bodypart.

As an aside - anyone following the funny fight between Markus & Drew Baye on Facebook over who is the true heir to Mike?


Same goes for natural Mr America John Heart. He sticks with the HD1 set up and a few more sets/ movements than Mentzer advocated.

As for Baye and Reinhardt, no wonder so many are turned off by hit and the cultishness of extreme hitters.

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Lioncourt

entsminger wrote:
I'm not friends with either of them on face book so please tell us what the heck they are saying.By heir do they mean who quit bodybuilding crying I should have won and started smoking ,taking drugs and went off the deep end, ha ha. If nothing else this forum is good for laughs!!


Net net of it is that apparently Joanne some time ago got upset at Markus claiming he was a Heavy Duty trainer in an Ironman interview. She recently I guess has told Drew to produce official HD videos for Youtube since she received Mike's business upon his death. Markus was upset because he felt it should have been him since he was pretty close to Mike and Drew never even met Mike.

All of this isn't in a FB group, just postings by Markus on his personal FB page and Drew on his. I'm not friends with Drew, but am Markus due to the comedy he is some times. None of them are great standard bearers for Mike IMO. Markus because he can come off as a moron, Drew because he looks like crap as a bodybuilder, and Joanne could care less besides what orders still come in over the site. When was the last time she updated it, like a year and a half ago?
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Bastion

Reinhardt isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. But he represents Mentzer style training much better than Baye IMO. He even has "Heavy Duty" and a Nautilus cam tattooed on his arms. That's hardcore!. When did Baye become a Heavy Duty guy?. I thought he was a once a week superslow guy. I can just see his Heavy Duty vids now. Chest/delts/triceps....1 set of chest press, 1 set of overhead press, 1 set of tricep extensions, take 7 days off and train back/biceps in 3 sets LOL. The only thing I can think of is that perhaps Baye is easier and brighter to do business with and not such a drunk blowhard shyster as Reinhardt.
I ordered a DVD from Reinhardt about 4-5 yrs ago. It took 2 months to receive it. And it was just a blank DVD copy of someone filming 2 of his workouts. It came in a blank case and it was around $30-40 bucks. Definitely not the big hit DVD as advertised.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Markus because he can come off as a moron, Drew because he looks like crap as a bodybuilder,

==Scott==
Ha ha, this is great stuff!!
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Lioncourt

Bastion wrote:
I can just see his Heavy Duty vids now. Chest/delts/triceps....1 set of chest press, 1 set of overhead press, 1 set of tricep extensions, take 7 days off and train back/biceps in 3 sets LOL. The only thing I can think of is that perhaps Baye is easier and brighter to do business with and not such a drunk blowhard shyster as Reinhardt.


I don't think Joanne owns the rights to the training video Mike shot with Markus on the day he died, which is why it is not sold on the Mike Mentzer site and she doesn't just use it. Same goes for the underground seminar that was filmed in the late 90s. I think Brian Johnston was there from a comment or two Mike makes to him in the video.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

I gave Joanne the rights to the video. It may not be promoted simply because Mike was re-thinking his ideals when it came to ultimate training. But I could be wrong.
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hit4me

Florida, USA

i also read in a magazine many moons ago that mentzer was trying to convince yates that he was doing too much, yates did not buy it and continued what he was doing and still promotes in his videos.

I have been following reinhardts videos for the past couple years and he performs a 3x/week split (chest, shoulders/tri's)(back/bi's)(legs/calves/abs)...Reinhardt is a good example of high intensity in regards to pre-exhaust, form and negatives and he has a good physique to back it up.

I have also been following baye, he is an advocate of full body training once a week and time under tension and proper form, but the way he comes off is his way is the only way.....well, as we all know there a thousand ways to work out and buid a good physique.

john heart follows the consolidated routine and Gordon Lavelle is more like the original mentzer type training.

in my opinion mentzer had it down until he started promoting his consolidated routines
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hit4me

Florida, USA

Brian Johnston wrote:
I gave Joanne the rights to the video. It may not be promoted simply because Mike was re-thinking his ideals when it came to ultimate training. But I could be wrong.


Brian,

how come we do not see videos of you and your type of training on youtube, I was able to find one from years ago but that's it?
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Bastion

hit4me wrote:


john heart follows the consolidated routine and Gordon Lavelle is more like the original mentzer type training.

in my opinion mentzer had it down until he started promoting his consolidated routines


I agree 100%. Mentzer kinda shot himself in the foot with the consolidation stuff. But you can't fault him for suggesting something different that he thought might work. He just went overboard with it.

According to John Heart"s latest book, he trains 2-3 times per week on a push/pull/legs split. But has in the past used consolidation. He's not a slow MO rep guy either.

Gordon Lavelle"s more in line with Yates style. Training 3-4 times a week splitting the body into 3-4 workouts. His book training for mass is really good and well written.

If I were to train in Mentzer style again, I'd cycle it with CFT for a few weeks at a time . Although the heavy all out stuff isn't kind to my recovery and the fact that I like to train more often.

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Bastion

When Mentzer was in his heyday, he did loads of cardio (mainly running) and used a lot of giant and tri and supersets along with pre exhaust of course. He got away from all that after the first few years of training people, and it seems became obsessed with less less less and judging progress on nothing but strength gains. Although some say he was about to go back to higher frequency.
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Lioncourt

Bastion wrote:
When Mentzer was in his heyday, he did loads of cardio (mainly running) and used a lot of giant and tri and supersets along with pre exhaust of course. He got away from all that after the first few years of training people, and it seems became obsessed with less less less and judging progress on nothing but strength gains. Although some say he was about to go back to higher frequency.


I think Val Segal is the one that started this rumor. I don't know if I believe it though because he did show the ideal routine in the training video and said Markus was resting a week between workouts (even though he wasn't). That would have been the time to switch gears if he wanted to go back to HD1 or something else. Maybe the truth is that there was no method to what he recommended and he was making it up on the fly as he went along and boxed himself into a corner with extreme frequency and low volume.
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HeavyHitter32

Mentzer told me in the mid 90s his goal was to get EVERYONE on the consolidation routine. However, since so many people were hesitant about so little exercise before starting, he started off people using the split routine since it contained more exercises and people found that more acceptable.
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Bastion

Lioncourt wrote:


I think Val Segal is the one that started this rumor. I don't know if I believe it though because he did show the ideal routine in the training video and said Markus was resting a week between workouts (even though he wasn't). That would have been the time to switch gears if he wanted to go back to HD1 or something else. Maybe the truth is that there was no method to what he recommended and he was making it up on

the fly as he went along and boxed himself into a corner with extreme frequency and low volume.


I think you're spot on here. I recall some of this from being on high intensity. Net yrs ago. Talk about a shyster, Val Segal was Mike's "assistant "...aka drug supplier.

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entsminger

Virginia, USA

==Scott==
Mentzer might not have been the biggest or best bodybuilder around but he sure was strong. I watched him many a time using the entire machine and sometime with someone standing on the weight stack when I was using 40 pounds. Quite unbelievable when you see it in person.
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Bastion

entsminger wrote:
==Scott==
Mentzer might not have been the biggest or best bodybuilder around but he sure was strong. I watched him many a time using the entire machine and sometime with someone standing on the weight stack when I was using 40 pounds. Quite unbelievable when you see it in person.


That's really cool that you got to see Mike in action. No doubt he was a genetic marvel. I read somewhere about him squatting 500 lbs and doing 185lb preacher curls and 225lb overhead presses when he was only about 15 or so. Long before nautilus or any of that.
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HeavyHitter32

entsminger wrote:
==Scott==
Mentzer might not have been the biggest or best bodybuilder around but he sure was strong. I watched him many a time using the entire machine and sometime with someone standing on the weight stack when I was using 40 pounds. Quite unbelievable when you see it in person.


I imagine if he had focused on powerlifting instead of bodybuilder he would have reached some incredible feats. He just seemed to be built for strength and being 5'8" thick boned. As bodybuilder, he had that rock hard thickness even though his symmetry was not as good as others.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

HeavyHitter32 wrote:
entsminger wrote:
==Scott==
Mentzer might not have been the biggest or best bodybuilder around but he sure was strong. I watched him many a time using the entire machine and sometime with someone standing on the weight stack when I was using 40 pounds. Quite unbelievable when you see it in person.

I imagine it he had focused on powerlifting instead of bodybuilder he would have reach some incredible feats. He just seemed to be built for strength his frame and being 5'8" thick boned. As bodybuilder, he had that rock hard thickness even though his symmetry was not as good as others.


==Scott==
He was sort of like Viator in that he was strong a bull but didn't have that pleasing look like a Zane needed to win big bodybuilding titles.
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