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ATP 4 Vitality

S.M.Punisher wrote:
Just came here to see if this thread had developed since I quit following it, and lo and behold more of the same utter garbage.

If you're going to disagree with Grant, fine. But I don't recall Grant ever being abusive. If you think he's trolling, don't engage with him. If you think he's wrong, debate him without being abusive.

Either way it would be nice to let the genuinely useful information through, unpolluted with pointless, unfunny banter. How many more pages of the same rehashed "arguments" would that take, I wonder.

Just my opinion and friendly advice.


The only acceptable manner to debate is with facts and/or logic. I have debated the person in question with facts and logic. He chooses not to debate me.

Some use "other" tactics such as name calling to cloud issues. These are the "real" trolls.

To repeat, the only way to debate correctly is with facts and logic.

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ATP 4 Vitality

Serious debate tactic:
----------------------

ATP 4 Vitality
09/22/17
07:40 PM

A Max Pyramid Leg Press has a serious flaw in procedure. Dr. Darden has warned of lag time in eccentric training. Clearly the lag time during "pyramid" weight additions/subtractions allow for retracing of slow twitch muscle fibers. Thus, sequential recruitment of muscle fibers slow-to-fast is suboptimal. Darden's 30 30 30 paradigm is clearly superior as regards sequential muscle fiber recruitment.....which is a desirable goal of weight training.

-------------

Notice there was no rebuttal with contrary facts/logic.

Grant?????
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sirloin

ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
S.M.Punisher wrote:
Just came here to see if this thread had developed since I quit following it, and lo and behold more of the same utter garbage.

If you're going to disagree with Grant, fine. But I don't recall Grant ever being abusive. If you think he's trolling, don't engage with him. If you think he's wrong, debate him without being abusive.

Either way it would be nice to let the genuinely useful information through, unpolluted with pointless, unfunny banter. How many more pages of the same rehashed "arguments" would that take, I wonder.

Just my opinion and friendly advice.

The only acceptable manner to debate is with facts and/or logic. I have debated the person in question with facts and logic. He chooses not to debate me.

Some use "other" tactics such as name calling to cloud issues. These are the "real" trolls.

To repeat, the only way to debate correctly is with facts and logic.



Cause bringing up this post from 3 weeks ago isnt going to inflame things.
Name calling? Anyone who disgrees with you is reffered to as a "HIT parrot" (even though youve done your fair share of parroting).
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sirloin

ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
Serious debate tactic:
----------------------

ATP 4 Vitality
09/22/17
07:40 PM

A Max Pyramid Leg Press has a serious flaw in procedure. Dr. Darden has warned of lag time in eccentric training. Clearly the lag time during "pyramid" weight additions/subtractions allow for retracing of slow twitch muscle fibers. Thus, sequential recruitment of muscle fibers slow-to-fast is suboptimal. Darden's 30 30 30 paradigm is clearly superior as regards sequential muscle fiber recruitment.....which is a desirable goal of weight training.

-------------

Notice there was no rebuttal with contrary facts/logic.

Grant?????


Little stated, that many found one long hold too daunting, mimi rest pauses made it more doable. He also stated that he preferred to have clients "simmer to the boil".
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sirloin

With regards to this zero lag time / constant tension being necessary for increases in strength or hypertrophy, how many have used rest pause training with grest succuss? Answer...A hellva a lot!!

On this site alone i read countless posts over the years from indivduals who've had succuss with cluster sets, doggcrapp, Drew Baye's version of 5 seconds RP's between reps and dare i say, even MPP.

Ive personally had succuss with rest pause static's and 3-5 rep mini cluster sets with 10 second rest pauses between clusters, used the latter today. Both have taken me to new grounds.





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tensionstrength

HeavyHitter32 wrote:
tensionstrength wrote:
HeavyHitter32 wrote:
I don't know, I never felt my legs were affecting my chest training or vice versa even if there is a little bit of synergism in some movements (like DB or BB rowing as it affects a lot of muscles and includes hamstring statics to a lesser degree). But, for a long time I've been laser focused on that muscle I am targeting, feel, and the contractions - as well as not using what I would consider excessive loads. I know some guys use so much weight, heaving, momentum, etc. that it does bring those things into play and what I would consider real "outroading" but it depends on your goals. If doing something like Olympic training, obviously things like that come into play more versus proper bodybuilding and more focus on "isolation".
.
There is a "feel" that I go for. Pretty vague I guess but there's a point where the weight feels too heavy and a point where it's too light. Sometimes it might take some short warmup or feeler sets to find the right weight. Finding that weight seems to help me maintain form/ tension.



I also find that having trained for 27 years and being 45 years old - I cannot get away with stuff that I could in my younger years. I've got to watch lower back or knees, and lately elbows. When I was 25, I could use max loads to utter failure for 5-10 reps and generally be fine. If I try that now, I pay a price. All of that heavy training will catch up to you at some point. I also learned that the extra loads never contributed to more muscle and even some more recent experiments showed that for me. Better to focus on contraction, fatigue and isolating that muscle as much as you can. It actually takes a lot less load to do that versus heaving around heavy weights chasing a number and then wondering how you gain all of that "strength" with no new muscle. The other part of it is diet and making sure you have enough nutrients and calories while at the same time staying reasonably lean....10-15% BF.


Great stuff. I especially like the part about chasing a number.
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tensionstrength

sirloin wrote:
With regards to this zero lag time / constant tension being necessary for increases in strength or hypertrophy, how many have used rest pause training with grest succuss? Answer...A hellva a lot!!

On this site alone i read countless posts over the years from indivduals who've had succuss with cluster sets, doggcrapp, Drew Baye's version of 5 seconds RP's between reps and dare i say, even MPP.

Ive personally had succuss with rest pause static's and 3-5 rep mini cluster sets with 10 second rest pauses between clusters, used the latter today. Both have taken me to new grounds.


Very good points.




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tensionstrength

StuKE wrote:
As someone said a few posts ago, yes you can feel tension in other muscles whilst say bench pressing, but it is likely that a number of muscles are working pretty hard together, but perhaps the fact that your triceps, delts and lats are helping, prevents your pecs from being hit really really hard. Same with many other exercises.
When I squat, I feel it the next morning in mu hamstrings, hips, lower back and to a lesser degree, thighs. But if I do my version if a single leg/sisay squat, the next day, the whole upper leg is aching, particularly the quads. So I think there are certainly a lot of reasons to do whole body, compounds only, but by the same token, a lot of reasons why isolation also is valuable.


Well said!
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Grant D

Illinois, USA

How to Best Apply Max Pyramid.

In my case since I am holding/positioning a huge gravity circuited load I am able to avoid any intra-rep recovery ... This is because I am able to adjust load and re-engage in about 3 three seconds. With a partner ... which is rare ... it can be done in less than 2 seconds. The pure beauty of this Max Pyramid is that since the load is so directly focused the muscles are able to inroad very effectively and cascade throughout the muscle (or muscle group in a compound) chain quite efficiently without outroad.

Please recall that Max Pyramid and 303030 or 9090 (done in one) are revelations of exercise science developed and applicable through recent history as progressive protocols have been exceeded with results ... when preformed properly. Also let it be known that very few trainees have understood or applied these principles effectively. Examples abound of confusion .. the emaciation of mister four-more "Doc" Lessner, the disgusting appearance of Ripletoe, the decades of stagnation and games of Tursin.

Amazingly few experts have understood and presented their own personal progressive development of their blessed expertise over the decades... Especially Little and the historic Dr Darden.
Got Health? Got showable Gains? Why not!
Cheers... Grant.
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Ray200

"Showable gains"? Ha ha. Love it. Keep it coming, Grant. You're a legend.

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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Grant D. wrote:
How to Best Apply Max Pyramid.

In my case since I am holding/positioning a huge gravity circuited load I am able to avoid any intra-rep recovery ... This is because I am able to adjust load and re-engage in about 3 three seconds. With a partner ... which is rare ... it can be done in less than 2 seconds. The pure beauty of this Max Pyramid is that since the load is so directly focused the muscles are able to inroad very effectively and cascade throughout the muscle (or muscle group in a compound) chain quite efficiently without outroad.

Please recall that Max Pyramid and 303030 or 9090 (done in one) are revelations of exercise science developed and applicable through recent history as progressive protocols have been exceeded with results ... when preformed properly. Also let it be known that very few trainees have understood or applied these principles effectively. Examples abound of confusion .. the emaciation of mister four-more "Doc" Lessner, the disgusting appearance of Ripletoe, the decades of stagnation and games of Tursin.

Amazingly few experts have understood and presented their own personal progressive development of their blessed expertise over the decades... Especially Little and the historic Dr Darden.
Got Health? Got showable Gains? Why not!
Cheers... Grant.


==Scott==
Ok, you start off this post with" How to best apply Max Pyramid". No where in this post or any other that you have posted have you actually shown anything on how to apply this fabulous technique you talk of? If you won't show your self in action please give us a link to someone else doing what you speak of.
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sirloin

Lets also "recall" that Little said superslow was "synthetic tension", whereby the individual must create the tension him or herself as the load for such a method is TOO LIGHT and well below what your actually capable of contracting against.

Lets also "let it be known" that done-in-one (which is just an extreme version of superslow) was simply "created" for Little's clients that wanted to move the load from A to B, he figured why not to that in a single rep to reduce wear and tear. Its not a "revelation in exercise science", nor is it a "progressive protocol", nor had it anything to do with people maxing out weight stacks.
It was simply an alternate for Littles clients that didnt want to sit on their arses in the same poistion for several minutes at a time...and who can blame them!


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sirloin

With regards to Rippetoe's appearence being "disgusting", he said himself "people dont pay me for how i look, they pay me to teach them as to how to properly use a barbell". Of course Rippetoe and Little do have something in common...binge drinking.

As for Dr Ken, hes another one whom doesnt care much for the "body beautiful", he prefers to demonstrate function by folding solid metal frying pan's and squatting 2.5x his BW for 23 reps. Yeap, his gainzzz are showable alright! Much more impressive than mister outroading josh trenbolone lol.
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Grant D

Illinois, USA

Here is my latest exercise session which was prescribed and all results were as expected. Gains in load, and/or time and overall well-being AKA health and injury free without systemic devastation ... pure gravity circuited focused load without cheating, gaming, or heaving ... no chalk required :)

Back Extension 303131 plus 5 pounds
Pull Down Max Pyramid plus 2-1/2 pounds
Shoulder Shrug Max Pyramid plus 5 pounds

In the case of appearances ... Ripetoe is a double crossed loser. 1) appearance is deplorable 2) techniques are insane which caused his appearance and devastation to his quioxtic impish looks. This manifests itself in doing harm to those minions that listen to his buulljive ... sorry to say as his "tech(sic)niques" are another dimension from the practices presented by the author, host, and expert of this website ... not in sync with either my interpretation of John Little, and injurious and stagnating to one's capability and capacity.

The path to safe healthy continuous gains are apparent :) Got mass, Got Health ?
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Grant D. wrote:
Here is my latest exercise session which was prescribed and all results were as expected. Gains in load, and/or time and overall well-being AKA health and injury free without systemic devastation ... pure gravity circuited focused load without cheating, gaming, or heaving ... no chalk required :)

Back Extension 303131 plus 5 pounds
Pull Down Max Pyramid plus 2-1/2 pounds
Shoulder Shrug Max Pyramid plus 5 pounds

In the case of appearances ... Ripetoe is a double crossed loser. 1) appearance is deplorable 2) techniques are insane which caused his appearance and devastation to his quioxtic impish looks. This manifests itself in doing harm to those minions that listen to his buulljive ... sorry to say as his "tech(sic)niques" are another dimension from the practices presented by the author, host, and expert of this website ... not in sync with either my interpretation of John Little, and injurious and stagnating to one's capability and capacity.

The path to safe healthy continuous gains are apparent :) Got mass, Got Health ?


---Scott----
Here's my latest with no chalk. Standing lateral raises with 150 lb dumbells for 8 sets while watching Guilligans Island, bench press 500 lbs for 20 reps for 10 sets with no rest and pausing for 2 minutes at the chest, jumping jacks holding Olympic bar in teeth, walk on hands around the block with 50 lb kettle bells on feet. May the Force Be With you!!
Hey so long as we are talking nonscence I figured I'd join in!!
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acas1959

Go back to your GameBoy console chubby ...

Regards,
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Nwlifter

Gains in load, and/or time and overall well-being AKA health and injury free without systemic devastation ...

OK, how come if training like that lowers 'outroading' and is easier on the system, one has to wait weeks to train again, when people who do bodybuilder type workouts can train 3,4, or more days a week and make gains?
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sirloin

Grant D. wrote:
Here is my latest exercise session which was prescribed and all results were as expected. Gains in load, and/or time and overall well-being AKA health and injury free without systemic devastation ... pure gravity circuited focused load without cheating, gaming, or heaving ... no chalk required :)

Back Extension 303131 plus 5 pounds
Pull Down Max Pyramid plus 2-1/2 pounds
Shoulder Shrug Max Pyramid plus 5 pounds

In the case of appearances ... Ripetoe is a double crossed loser. 1) appearance is deplorable 2) techniques are insane which caused his appearance and devastation to his quioxtic impish looks. This manifests itself in doing harm to those minions that listen to his buulljive ... sorry to say as his "tech(sic)niques" are another dimension from the practices presented by the author, host, and expert of this website ... not in sync with either my interpretation of John Little, and injurious and stagnating to one's capability and capacity.

The path to safe healthy continuous gains are apparent :) Got mass, Got Health ?


Yeah, you pretty much said the same about Jeff Cavaliere lol.
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acas1959

ATHLEAN Z ... LOL


kind regards,

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acas1959

sirloin wrote:
With regards to Rippetoe's appearence being "disgusting", he said himself "people dont pay me for how i look, they pay me to teach them as to how to properly use a barbell". Of course Rippetoe and Little do have something in common...binge drinking.

As for Dr Ken, hes another one whom doesnt care much for the "body beautiful", he prefers to demonstrate function by folding solid metal frying pan's and squatting 2.5x his BW for 23 reps. Yeap, his gainzzz are showable alright! Much more impressive than mister outroading josh trenbolone lol.


LMAO ... is he great Canadian beer sirloin

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acas1959

Let me tell you about my forearms routine ... yes I do lift too!!! ... really I doooo! ... guys!!
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sirloin

acas1959 wrote:
ATHLEAN Z ... LOL


kind regards,



Never has Ronnie Coleman's "nothing but a peanut" been so apt.

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sirloin

acas1959 wrote:
sirloin wrote:
With regards to Rippetoe's appearence being "disgusting", he said himself "people dont pay me for how i look, they pay me to teach them as to how to properly use a barbell". Of course Rippetoe and Little do have something in common...binge drinking.

As for Dr Ken, hes another one whom doesnt care much for the "body beautiful", he prefers to demonstrate function by folding solid metal frying pan's and squatting 2.5x his BW for 23 reps. Yeap, his gainzzz are showable alright! Much more impressive than mister outroading josh trenbolone lol.


LMAO ... is he great Canadian beer sirloin



Oh i believe he likes German beers, nothing but the best you know lol.
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hit4me

Florida, USA

ok I have to ask, I see some of ya are posting pics of proponents of the superslow version of HIT and it is kinda funny, but this leads me to my question: are any of these individuals claiming to be or want to be professional bodybuilders, weightlifters, powerlifters or athletes for that matter....or are they just claiming stupidly that their way of training is the only way to train.

I was curious because, I follow 2 to 3x/week fullbody HIT with no expectation of becoming Ronnie coleman or mike ohearn or even that guy called athlean-x
my expectation is to age gracefully with stamina, strength and to lean out with no injuries going forward.
sometimes I change it up and do split routine, but I always fall back on full body.
however, I will never reduce my frequency to once a week or even every other week....that just makes no sense to me, you may as well not even train at all....if you don't use it, you will lose it.

just curious as what everyone's expectations are by training (real) HIT 2 to 3x per week???????
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sirloin

hit4me wrote:
ok I have to ask, I see some of ya are posting pics of proponents of the superslow version of HIT and it is kinda funny, but this leads me to my question: are any of these individuals claiming to be or want to be professional bodybuilders, weightlifters, powerlifters or athletes for that matter....or are they just claiming stupidly that their way of training is the only way to train.

I was curious because, I follow 2 to 3x/week fullbody HIT with no expectation of becoming Ronnie coleman or mike ohearn or even that guy called athlean-x
my expectation is to age gracefully with stamina, strength and to lean out with no injuries going forward.
sometimes I change it up and do split routine, but I always fall back on full body.
however, I will never reduce my frequency to once a week or even every other week....that just makes no sense to me, you may as well not even train at all....if you don't use it, you will lose it.

just curious as what everyone's expectations are by training (real) HIT 2 to 3x per week???????


These indivduals ("experts" - even the obese and morbidly obses ones) are indeed claiming their way of training is the best and fastest way to safely build muscle and strength.

Couple of examples, John Little claimed you could gain up to 18lb of muscle in 4 weeks using the omega set. Really?

Take a look at the cover of body by science, it says "a reseach based program for strength training, BODYBUILDING and complete fitness in 12 minutes per week". Really?

Pete Sisco's another one, hes advocting training as little as once every several weeks or longer in some cases.

Did Dr Darden achieve the look in those photo's we've seen of him at his best train like that? Of course not. He said recently it was training 4x per week on a split routine, with 10-12 exerises, 3 sets of 10 each.











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