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sirloin

Average Al wrote:
Grant D. wrote:
Sirion
Max Contraction Training was also rendered obsolete since trainees again developed beyond machine limits. John Little then developed Advanced Max Contraction Training which required assistance, and also became obsolete as strength again exceeded one's ability to find/procure/impart enough gravity circuited weight.

These protocols worked great fro myself ... for about 12-15 months then I ran-outta-weight. Thanks to Little for then revealing Max Pyramid and DoneInOne and then Dr. Darden 303030.

ALL TRAINEES please understand the concept of progressive revelation as it applies to Exercise Science. My current sessions of Max Pyramid, 303030, DoneInOne and a bit of Omega have served me quite well for the last six years with progress EVERY SESSION. I can project these protocols working for me for at least the next 4 to 5 years ... until someone finds a way to safely stack 45 poundo plates!

Cheers
Grant


Oddly enough, John Little himself admitted on the BBS site that Max pyramid (and the other protocols) were as effective as standard BBS, which is pretty much standard SS. The only thing favoring them was maybe less joint stress. So in terms of strength and muscle hypertrophy, there should be no real difference, according the beloved master of ultra intense HIT.

Little gave an interview recently on 15 minute corporate warrior. Says he has a new book in the works, working title is something like minimalist training.

He also reiterated that muscle gains are pretty much capped by genetics, and once they have been training seriously for a few years, most people will have added most or all the muscle they will ever see. So if you are training for decades and still seeing steady progress, something is fishy, at least according to the John Little perspective.

Assuming he is correct (and it seems like he might be), you have to wonder about many of the ideas being promoted in the HIT community. If you hit your limit pretty quickly, then do any of the advanced techniques, special machines, special protocols, special cadences really accomplish anything? Or is most of that just another kind of bro science, of the HIT variety?

When asked about how people can get in touch with him, Little said he no longer has a web site, so.... just leave me alone (tongue in cheek, sort of).

Interesting interview.


Listened to it myself...

He claimed he gained 12lb of muscle in one week from heavy overload partial reps in bbs, this was after decades of training, so hes contradicting himself...again.

Another book on a minimalistic appoarch, just what the world needs, money must be tight. Personally i was more interesting in artist book.
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sirloin

Grant D. wrote:
Sirion
Max Contraction Training was also rendered obsolete since trainees again developed beyond machine limits. John Little then developed Advanced Max Contraction Training which required assistance, and also became obsolete as strength again exceeded one's ability to find/procure/impart enough gravity circuited weight.

These protocols worked great fro myself ... for about 12-15 months then I ran-outta-weight. Thanks to Little for then revealing Max Pyramid and DoneInOne and then Dr. Darden 303030.

ALL TRAINEES please understand the concept of progressive revelation as it applies to Exercise Science. My current sessions of Max Pyramid, 303030, DoneInOne and a bit of Omega have served me quite well for the last six years with progress EVERY SESSION. I can project these protocols working for me for at least the next 4 to 5 years ... until someone finds a way to safely stack 45 poundo plates!

Cheers
Grant


So long story short youve resorted to using superslow variarions and MMP - the latter being a complete utter polar opposite of MCT theory.

Personally i looked for a gym with bigger weight stacks, a free motion cable machine has 2x 300lb stacks, pulldown machines with 350lb stacks were well over 100lb can be safely attacted, weighted chins are another option, Barbell shrugs, on the technogym gym curl machine one can add weight on the handles etc. On other exercises such as leg extensions, one can have a training partner apply manuel resistance. Plenty of ways to work around the "problem".
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Nwlifter

So he's writing a new book, has no website and wants people to leave him alone? Not sure how well that book is going to work out then....
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Average Al

Nwlifter wrote:
So he's writing a new book, has no website and wants people to leave him alone? Not sure how well that book is going to work out then....



He did say that he might have to put up a web site to support the book, depending on what the publisher required.

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Nwlifter

Average Al wrote:
Nwlifter wrote:
So he's writing a new book, has no website and wants people to leave him alone? Not sure how well that book is going to work out then....


He did say that he might have to put up a web site to support the book, depending on what the publisher required.



I'd guess so , unless door to door sales? lol



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HeavyHitter32

sirloin wrote:


He claimed he gained 12lb of muscle in one week from heavy overload partial reps in bbs, this was after decades of training, so hes contradicting himself...again.

Another book on a minimalistic appoarch, just what the world needs, money must be tight. Personally i was more interesting in artist book.


He said 12 lbs of muscle in a week? Heavy steroid users starting out don't even gain that much in a week.

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sirloin

HeavyHitter32 wrote:
sirloin wrote:


He claimed he gained 12lb of muscle in one week from heavy overload partial reps in bbs, this was after decades of training, so hes contradicting himself...again.

Another book on a minimalistic appoarch, just what the world needs, money must be tight. Personally i was more interesting in artist book.


He said 12 lbs of muscle in a week? Heavy steroid users don't even gain that much in a week.



That what he claims in bbs2, he added he wasnt comsuming anything more than a normal diet at that point aswell.

But lets say its true, it shows one can indeed stimulate new growth with an advanced technique, even if that indivdual has been training for decades. Which is pretty much the opposite of what hes implying in this new interview.

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ATP 4 Vitality

sirloin wrote:
He claimed he gained 12lb of muscle in one week from heavy overload partial reps in bbs, this was after decades of training, so hes contradicting himself...again.



Could you point out exactly where (at what point in time in this interview) he made such a claim?

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sirloin

ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
sirloin wrote:
He claimed he gained 12lb of muscle in one week from heavy overload partial reps in bbs, this was after decades of training, so hes contradicting himself...again.



Could you point out exactly where (at what point in time in this interview) he made such a claim?



In bbs book2 he makes that claim (as i already pointed out). It was also claimed in the same book an indivdual gained 6lb of muscle in one week using MCT.

It also says on the cover of advanced MCT "gain up to 18lb of muscle in 4 weeks with the revolutionary new omega set".


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PTDaniel

sirloin wrote:
ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
sirloin wrote:
He claimed he gained 12lb of muscle in one week from heavy overload partial reps in bbs, this was after decades of training, so hes contradicting himself...again.



Could you point out exactly where (at what point in time in this interview) he made such a claim?



In bbs book2 he makes that claim (as i already pointed out). It was also claimed in the same book an indivdual gained 6lb of muscle in one week using MCT.

It also says on the cover of advanced MCT "gain up to 18lb of muscle in 4 weeks with the revolutionary new omega set".




It reads like the cover of a "Woman's World" magazine you see at a grocery store checkout counter. Every issue has a headline that claims you can lose 20+ pounds in a month with a revolutionary new soup.
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sirloin

sirloin wrote:
Average Al wrote:
Grant D. wrote:
Sirion
Max Contraction Training was also rendered obsolete since trainees again developed beyond machine limits. John Little then developed Advanced Max Contraction Training which required assistance, and also became obsolete as strength again exceeded one's ability to find/procure/impart enough gravity circuited weight.

These protocols worked great fro myself ... for about 12-15 months then I ran-outta-weight. Thanks to Little for then revealing Max Pyramid and DoneInOne and then Dr. Darden 303030.

ALL TRAINEES please understand the concept of progressive revelation as it applies to Exercise Science. My current sessions of Max Pyramid, 303030, DoneInOne and a bit of Omega have served me quite well for the last six years with progress EVERY SESSION. I can project these protocols working for me for at least the next 4 to 5 years ... until someone finds a way to safely stack 45 poundo plates!

Cheers
Grant


Oddly enough, John Little himself admitted on the BBS site that Max pyramid (and the other protocols) were as effective as standard BBS, which is pretty much standard SS. The only thing favoring them was maybe less joint stress. So in terms of strength and muscle hypertrophy, there should be no real difference, according the beloved master of ultra intense HIT.

Little gave an interview recently on 15 minute corporate warrior. Says he has a new book in the works, working title is something like minimalist training.

He also reiterated that muscle gains are pretty much capped by genetics, and once they have been training seriously for a few years, most people will have added most or all the muscle they will ever see. So if you are training for decades and still seeing steady progress, something is fishy, at least according to the John Little perspective.

Assuming he is correct (and it seems like he might be), you have to wonder about many of the ideas being promoted in the HIT community. If you hit your limit pretty quickly, then do any of the advanced techniques, special machines, special protocols, special cadences really accomplish anything? Or is most of that just another kind of bro science, of the HIT variety?

When asked about how people can get in touch with him, Little said he no longer has a web site, so.... just leave me alone (tongue in cheek, sort of).

Interesting interview.


Listened to it myself...

He claimed he gained 12lb of muscle in one week from heavy overload partial reps in bbs, this was after decades of training, so hes contradicting himself...again.

Another book on a minimalistic appoarch, just what the world needs, money must be tight. Personally i was more interesting in artist book.


FAO PT Danial

Re-read this

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sirloin

PTDaniel wrote:
sirloin wrote:
ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
sirloin wrote:
He claimed he gained 12lb of muscle in one week from heavy overload partial reps in bbs, this was after decades of training, so hes contradicting himself...again.



Could you point out exactly where (at what point in time in this interview) he made such a claim?



In bbs book2 he makes that claim (as i already pointed out). It was also claimed in the same book an indivdual gained 6lb of muscle in one week using MCT.

It also says on the cover of advanced MCT "gain up to 18lb of muscle in 4 weeks with the revolutionary new omega set".




It reads like the cover of a "Woman's World" magazine you see at a grocery store checkout counter. Every issue has a headline that claims you can lose 20+ pounds in a month with a revolutionary new soup.


First- Losing 20lbs in 4 weeks is one thing, but gaining 18lbs of muscle 4 weeks weeks NATURALLY is quite another.

Secondly - Little has made a habit of speaking out against the supplement and fitness industry for using "seductive advertising", (which is true), however HE HIMSELF has done the very same.




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sirloin

Personally im looking forward to reading Art De Vanys new book, he's single digit BF in his 80s (and has provided evidence), weight trains 6 days per week, goes for powerwalks and sprints every morning etc. I believe hes had hip or knee replacements, but that was from playing pro basketball in his youth. Still, to his credit he hasnt made it an excuse not to train regularly.

Little on the other hand trains on average 6 minutes per week and drinks a half dozen beers at time. (He mentions this in that new interview)...and this is a man who feels the industry is being misreprensented.


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Bastion

sirloin wrote:


Little on the other hand trains on average 6 minutes per week and drinks a half dozen beers at time. (He mentions this in that new interview)...and this is a man who feels the industry is being misreprensented.




Sounds like a real health nut, Someone we should all be looking up too and looking to for advice on physique development. No wonder he's never posted a pic of himself. Little and Sisco have to be the 2 biggest frauds in the "bodybuilding industry ".
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Average Al

sirloin wrote:
Personally im looking forward to reading Art De Vanys new book, he's single digit BF in his 80s (and has provided evidence), weight trains 6 days per week, goes for powerwalks and sprints every morning etc. I believe hes had hip or knee replacements, but that was from playing pro basketball in his youth. Still, to his credit he hasnt made it an excuse not to train regularly.

Little on the other hand trains on average 6 minutes per week and drinks a half dozen beers at time. (He mentions this in that new interview)...and this is a man who feels the industry is being misreprensented.




Achieving 6% body fat is more a consequence of dietary discipline than training. De Vany's wife and son both have (or had) diabetes; early on he became very strict about diet, favoring whole foods and a low carb regime to help them manage their illness.

As for training: lifting weights 6 days a week at age 80 seems like overkill. Little's abbreviated approach seems at little extreme on the low end (IMO). But 6 days a week seems a bit much, unless he is doing something like just one lift a day.

Also, I believe his sport was baseball, not basketball.

I assume you are referring to a book on anti aging, which is his latest interest. I wonder how good his grasp of the science really is? Sometimes aging academic types seem to go off the deep end when they develop new interests late in life...
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Grant D

Illinois, USA

Oddly enough, John Little himself admitted on the BBS site that Max pyramid (and the other protocols) were as effective as standard BBS, which is pretty much standard SS. The only thing favoring them was maybe less joint stress. So in terms of strength and muscle hypertrophy, there should be no real difference, according the beloved master of ultra intense HIT.

AA.

John made some incredible points regarding joint safety. We remove monentumm, acceleration and eventually (most) velocity to protect (not injure or stress) the joints. If one stresses and/or injures the joint then "walla" systemic overload, mis-directed recovery, body distractions from health. Which is why I try to avoid any motion. That way I have
1) direct focused intensity into the muscle (group) without changing moment arms, squiggling, cheating, outroading and/or stressing.

At the machine loads I am doing, at the level of load I am holding ... I have no choice but to eliminate motion for safety, intensity, growth, strength ...to assure that I continue to approach (but never achieve as far as I can tell) progressive progress in size, strength, and load!
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Grant D

Illinois, USA

Unfortunately as good as Devany "looks/is" ... his protocol (and I bet his book) will be a confusion conundrum of over-training and injurious ancient techniques. His protocol does not solicit growth and as such will result in retrograde progress due to the systemic overload in volume and frequency, lack of intense-enuff load, and foolish games. Never-the-less there are those that will celebrate this debacle in that trainees will confuse the muscle-stagnating (and eventual wasting) techniques with health ... by confusing leanness and definition for less muscle as success.

I will be the first to say that this book will do harm to the masses of uneducated,ignorant, and mis-informed.

Recall by following John Little's and Dr. Dardens current protocols (MP, Di1, 303030, Omega) I make progress in appearance, size, strength, and load EVERY SESSION since 2009/2010 all with about 400 segundos TUL every two weeks or there-abouts. :)

PS:JD can I quote your PM points?

Cheers, GrantED
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PTDaniel

sirloin wrote:
PTDaniel wrote:
sirloin wrote:
ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
sirloin wrote:
He claimed he gained 12lb of muscle in one week from heavy overload partial reps in bbs, this was after decades of training, so hes contradicting himself...again.



Could you point out exactly where (at what point in time in this interview) he made such a claim?



In bbs book2 he makes that claim (as i already pointed out). It was also claimed in the same book an indivdual gained 6lb of muscle in one week using MCT.

It also says on the cover of advanced MCT "gain up to 18lb of muscle in 4 weeks with the revolutionary new omega set".




It reads like the cover of a "Woman's World" magazine you see at a grocery store checkout counter. Every issue has a headline that claims you can lose 20+ pounds in a month with a revolutionary new soup.

First- Losing 20lbs in 4 weeks is one thing, but gaining 18lbs of muscle 4 weeks weeks NATURALLY is quite another.

Secondly - Little has made a habit of speaking out against the supplement and fitness industry for using "seductive advertising", (which is true), however HE HIMSELF has done the very same.






It's not different in the sense it's a marketing ploy. You can get X amount of what you want in Y amount of time. X is unreasonably large and Y is unreasonably short. The greater X is and the less Y is the more somebody wants to believe it. Where are all these huge guys using Omega Sets, Max Contraction, Done-In-One? Probably hanging out with all of the waiflike supermodels slurping the miracle soup.
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ATP 4 Vitality

sirloin wrote:

In bbs book2 he makes that claim (as i already pointed out). It was also claimed in the same book an indivdual gained 6lb of muscle in one week using MCT.



Claims are just that. On the other hand, Dr. Darden produces data and photographs. Little's interview does not sound like he would NOW believe his own claims.



It also says on the cover of advanced MCT "gain up to 18lb of muscle in 4 weeks with the revolutionary new omega set".




Pure speculation on his part. Furthermore, this shows his lack of experimentation with isometrics. It does not take but a small amount of experimentation to see that longer duration isometrics give much better results and are much safer. Also, further "small" amounts of experimentation would show how isometrics held in the middle position work much better than a positional hold in the "max-contracted or max-pyramid position. Was he just doing isometric recommendations from a theoretical perspective? I have some reservations about John Little. He also should have realized that isometric holds longer than 2 minutes don't evoke labored breathing. Longer TUL isometric holds may be anaerobic also. If he had experimented with isometrics, would he not have noticed this lack of hard breathing? Lots of reservations here also.

I'm surprised he did not team up with Ren-Ex and their "future" of exercise .... the i-machines. Although Josh has lots of interesting ideas on isometrics, and he also has Doug McGuff on board, I'm surprised Little did not jump on board...... Time will tell if they jump the shark.
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sirloin

ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
sirloin wrote:

In bbs book2 he makes that claim (as i already pointed out). It was also claimed in the same book an indivdual gained 6lb of muscle in one week using MCT.



Claims are just that. On the other hand, Dr. Darden produces data and photographs. Little's interview does not sound like he would NOW believe his own claims.



It also says on the cover of advanced MCT "gain up to 18lb of muscle in 4 weeks with the revolutionary new omega set".




Pure speculation on his part. Furthermore, this shows his lack of experimentation with isometrics. It does not take but a small amount of experimentation to see that longer duration isometrics give much better results and are much safer. Also, further "small" amounts of experimentation would show how isometrics held in the middle position work much better than a positional hold in the "max-contracted or max-pyramid position. Was he just doing isometric recommendations from a theoretical perspective? I has some reservations about John Little. He also should have realized that isometric holds longer than 2 minutes don't evoke labored breathing. Longer TUL isometric holds may be anaerobic also. If he had experimented with isometrics, would he not have noticed this lack of hard breathing? Lots of reservations here also.

I'm surprised he did not team up with Ren-Ex and their "future" of exercise .... the i-machines. Although Josh has lots of interesting ideas on isometrics, and he also has Doug McGuff on board, I'm surprised Little did not jump on board...... Time will tell if they jump the shark.



Think your missing the point. The point is hes implying using advanced techniques beyond a certain point wont produce anything. Yet, he himself claimed to have made great gains using advanced techniques...even after he'd been training for decades. Its a contradiction.
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sirloin

PTDaniel wrote:
sirloin wrote:
PTDaniel wrote:
sirloin wrote:
ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
sirloin wrote:
He claimed he gained 12lb of muscle in one week from heavy overload partial reps in bbs, this was after decades of training, so hes contradicting himself...again.



Could you point out exactly where (at what point in time in this interview) he made such a claim?



In bbs book2 he makes that claim (as i already pointed out). It was also claimed in the same book an indivdual gained 6lb of muscle in one week using MCT.

It also says on the cover of advanced MCT "gain up to 18lb of muscle in 4 weeks with the revolutionary new omega set".




It reads like the cover of a "Woman's World" magazine you see at a grocery store checkout counter. Every issue has a headline that claims you can lose 20+ pounds in a month with a revolutionary new soup.

First- Losing 20lbs in 4 weeks is one thing, but gaining 18lbs of muscle 4 weeks weeks NATURALLY is quite another.

Secondly - Little has made a habit of speaking out against the supplement and fitness industry for using "seductive advertising", (which is true), however HE HIMSELF has done the very same.






It's not different in the sense it's a marketing ploy. You can get X amount of what you want in Y amount of time. X is unreasonably large and Y is unreasonably short. The greater X is and the less Y is the more somebody wants to believe it. Where are all these huge guys using Omega Sets, Max Contraction, Done-In-One? Probably hanging out with all of the waiflike supermodels slurping the miracle soup.


One is saying lose 20lb of "weight"
(doesnt specify fat), this is very possible, though not healthy of course. The other says build 18lbs of "muscle" in 4 weeks. Cant say ive ever seen anyone do this by natural means.
Agree with your last point though lol.
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sirloin

Average Al wrote:
sirloin wrote:
Personally im looking forward to reading Art De Vanys new book, he's single digit BF in his 80s (and has provided evidence), weight trains 6 days per week, goes for powerwalks and sprints every morning etc. I believe hes had hip or knee replacements, but that was from playing pro basketball in his youth. Still, to his credit he hasnt made it an excuse not to train regularly.

Little on the other hand trains on average 6 minutes per week and drinks a half dozen beers at time. (He mentions this in that new interview)...and this is a man who feels the industry is being misreprensented.




Achieving 6% body fat is more a consequence of dietary discipline than training. De Vany's wife and son both have (or had) diabetes; early on he became very strict about diet, favoring whole foods and a low carb regime to help them manage their illness.

As for training: lifting weights 6 days a week at age 80 seems like overkill. Little's abbreviated approach seems at little extreme on the low end (IMO). But 6 days a week seems a bit much, unless he is doing something like just one lift a day.

Also, I believe his sport was baseball, not basketball.

I assume you are referring to a book on anti aging, which is his latest interest. I wonder how good his grasp of the science really is? Sometimes aging academic types seem to go off the deep end when they develop new interests late in life...


He trains "heavy" but not to failure, he likes negatives, a 15-8-4 rep scheme, full body workouts, with a focus on the shoulders, back and legs, doesnt directly train arms. I believe Jack Lalane trained everyday, and took sets to failure.
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sirloin

Grant D. wrote:
Unfortunately as good as Devany "looks/is" ... his protocol (and I bet his book) will be a confusion conundrum of over-training and injurious ancient techniques. His protocol does not solicit growth and as such will result in retrograde progress due to the systemic overload in volume and frequency, lack of intense-enuff load, and foolish games. Never-the-less there are those that will celebrate this debacle in that trainees will confuse the muscle-stagnating (and eventual wasting) techniques with health ... by confusing leanness and definition for less muscle as success.

I will be the first to say that this book will do harm to the masses of uneducated,ignorant, and mis-informed.

Recall by following John Little's and Dr. Dardens current protocols (MP, Di1, 303030, Omega) I make progress in appearance, size, strength, and load EVERY SESSION since 2009/2010 all with about 400 segundos TUL every two weeks or there-abouts. :)

PS:JD can I quote your PM points?

Cheers, GrantED


More ignorance and childishness from the faceless troll...

Devany recommends control, negatives, heavy training, train to success not failure etc. Moreover, he doesn't sit on his arse drinking a half dozen beers at a time or advocate consuming processed crap like McDonalds. Such a lifestyle will do a much greater amount of damage to the joints and connective tissues than DeVanys advice ever will.

"confusing leanness and definition for less muscle as success", did you only read the 30/30/30 part in Dr Ds last book? Did you not read or look at the photos of the people who lost massive amounts of fat and GAINED MUSCLE at the same time? You are what's referred to as a "permabulker" aka a permanent bulker, such people are heart scared of cutting and think their "size" is muscle, when in reality its fat.

As for this PM nonesense, I don't believe there even is a JD, however if in the slim chance there is, I would advise he come out from behind the curtain and speaks up for himself.
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sirloin

Bastion wrote:
sirloin wrote:


Little on the other hand trains on average 6 minutes per week and drinks a half dozen beers at time. (He mentions this in that new interview)...and this is a man who feels the industry is being misreprensented.




Sounds like a real health nut, Someone we should all be looking up too and looking to for advice on physique development. No wonder he's never posted a pic of himself. Little and Sisco have to be the 2 biggest frauds in the "bodybuilding industry ".


That they are. They've convinced many people that the "emperors new clothes" approach to training is worth every penny.
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hit4me

Florida, USA

sirloin wrote:
Average Al wrote:
sirloin wrote:
Personally im looking forward to reading Art De Vanys new book, he's single digit BF in his 80s (and has provided evidence), weight trains 6 days per week, goes for powerwalks and sprints every morning etc. I believe hes had hip or knee replacements, but that was from playing pro basketball in his youth. Still, to his credit he hasnt made it an excuse not to train regularly.

Little on the other hand trains on average 6 minutes per week and drinks a half dozen beers at time. (He mentions this in that new interview)...and this is a man who feels the industry is being misreprensented.




Achieving 6% body fat is more a consequence of dietary discipline than training. De Vany's wife and son both have (or had) diabetes; early on he became very strict about diet, favoring whole foods and a low carb regime to help them manage their illness.

As for training: lifting weights 6 days a week at age 80 seems like overkill. Little's abbreviated approach seems at little extreme on the low end (IMO). But 6 days a week seems a bit much, unless he is doing something like just one lift a day.

Also, I believe his sport was baseball, not basketball.

I assume you are referring to a book on anti aging, which is his latest interest. I wonder how good his grasp of the science really is? Sometimes aging academic types seem to go off the deep end when they develop new interests late in life...

He trains "heavy" but not to failure, he likes negatives, a 15-8-4 rep scheme, full body workouts, with a focus on the shoulders, back and legs, doesnt directly train arms. I believe Jack Lalane trained everyday, and took sets to failure.


i have Lalanes book and he was against training to failure...though he did train everyday, along with swimming everyday

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