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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

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coomo

Looks like im gonna have to retire from HIT.Permanently.
Just have full medical ,as part of my
treatment for my heart arythmia.
Hearts all good, however, ive got Aortic dilation.Basically my "out" artery has increased in size.

Cardiologist was puzzled as usual causes came back blank.Blood pressure being the usual cause.Mines normal.

However,Weight training does cause massive spikes in blood pressure.Now at 57, I cant afford to weaken the artery anymore.Im now reduced to light weights,"pumping" and cardio!!

The days of superslow, 2 minute leg presses to failure,a distant memory.
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sirloin

coomo wrote:
Looks like im gonna have to retire from HIT.Permanently.
Just have full medical ,as part of my
treatment for my heart arythmia.
Hearts all good, however, ive got Aortic dilation.Basically my "out" artery has increased in size.

Cardiologist was puzzled as usual causes came back blank.Blood pressure being the usual cause.Mines normal.

However,Weight training does cause massive spikes in blood pressure.Now at 57, I cant afford to weaken the artery anymore.Im now reduced to light weights,"pumping" and cardio!!

The days of superslow, 2 minute leg presses to failure,a distant memory.


Hey Coomo,

Sorry to hear that, i know all about those sort of issues and wish you the best.
Ive experiented on myself over the years (using my own BP cuff pre & post set), i found the shorter range "piston" style reps with rest pauses allowed me to create a good level of fatigue in the muscles without rising my BP too high. I was using as little as 30-40% of my one rep max.

Best
Rob

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AI1963

Wow. Sobering.

Sorry to hear of your diagnosis.

Some questions:

Did your cardiologist think your HIT training was "cause" to the "effect" of aortic dilation or was there some underlying condition or genetic predisposition that your HIT training exacerbated?

You mentioned being treated for arrhythmia. How did that first manifest? Is there any relationship between that condition and aortic dilation?

I know someone who trained heavily with weights at times then sustained (AND SURVIVED) aortic dissection. Initially some pointed at his weight training and his weight (he had become quite heavy) but it turns out several other male relatives had suffered the same and/or had a predisposition to do so...and they were not weight trainers nor overweight.

In any case, I hope you find a mode of training that you enjoy, keeps you looking good and keeps you healthy for the long term.

I, for one, am interested in how you can and choose to workout given this new reality. Please update via this forum.

Good luck and good health.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

coomo wrote:
Looks like im gonna have to retire from HIT.Permanently.
Just have full medical ,as part of my
treatment for my heart arythmia.
Hearts all good, however, ive got Aortic dilation.Basically my "out" artery has increased in size.

Cardiologist was puzzled as usual causes came back blank.Blood pressure being the usual cause.Mines normal.

However,Weight training does cause massive spikes in blood pressure.Now at 57, I cant afford to weaken the artery anymore.Im now reduced to light weights,"pumping" and cardio!!

The days of superslow, 2 minute leg presses to failure,a distant memory.

--Scott---
I'm wondering how much difference the spike in blood pressure is between HIT style and light weights and pumping ? It seems to me if I breath correctly I don't feel near the pressure spike I can get if I just dive in and push hard with out breathing smoothly but I've never measured my blood pressure doing anything. It's funny how in trying to get fitter and stronger we sometimes cause more damage than good.
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sgb2112

Smart move.

Just don't replace HIT with HIIT, you may be tempted at least initially, because you miss momentary muscular failure.

When I decided to bring cardio back into my fitness program, I used an online 'couch to 5K' treadmill program initially(free and on Youtube & everywhere else online).

I run, bike, swim, hike, play recreational sports like full court basketball, some tennis, soccer etc. It's actually FUN.




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Average Al

coomo wrote:
Looks like im gonna have to retire from HIT.Permanently.
Just have full medical ,as part of my
treatment for my heart arythmia.
Hearts all good, however, ive got Aortic dilation.Basically my "out" artery has increased in size.

Cardiologist was puzzled as usual causes came back blank.Blood pressure being the usual cause.Mines normal.

However,Weight training does cause massive spikes in blood pressure.Now at 57, I cant afford to weaken the artery anymore.Im now reduced to light weights,"pumping" and cardio!!

The days of superslow, 2 minute leg presses to failure,a distant memory.


Sounds serious - best of luck going forward.

Certain types of heart muscle hypertrophy (concentric left ventricle) have been associated with resistance training. But what you are describing sounds different. After googling a bit, it seems like you might be at higher risk for an aortic aneurysm, which is scary stuff. Being cautious is a very good strategy.

Did the doctor say that resistance training was a risk factor for developing this? I thought it was more often a congenital anomaly.


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Turpin

Sorry to hear this mate.

T.
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DownUnderLifter

coomo wrote:
Looks like im gonna have to retire from HIT.Permanently.
Just have full medical ,as part of my
treatment for my heart arythmia.
Hearts all good, however, ive got Aortic dilation.Basically my "out" artery has increased in size.

Cardiologist was puzzled as usual causes came back blank.Blood pressure being the usual cause.Mines normal.

However,Weight training does cause massive spikes in blood pressure.Now at 57, I cant afford to weaken the artery anymore.Im now reduced to light weights,"pumping" and cardio!!

The days of superslow, 2 minute leg presses to failure,a distant memory.


Sorry to hear that mate. What type of training will you be using re the light weights?

A few people on here (myself included) have had some success with Gironda-type cumulative fatigue training using lighter weights and short rests between sets.

DUL
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AceHIT

Weight-training incorrectly might cause an increase in arterial pressure.

Some causes of heart-disease might be genetic.

What are your thoughts on why you have this condition?

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Frank Scott

Sorry to hear that coomo but a wise decision I believe. I recently burst a blood vessel in an eye with an over strenuous rep. It didn't last long but it worried me and was ugly.
Stupid.I am joining you in the fresh air
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

coomo wrote:
Looks like im gonna have to retire from HIT.Permanently.
Just have full medical ,as part of my
treatment for my heart arythmia.
Hearts all good, however, ive got Aortic dilation.Basically my "out" artery has increased in size.

Cardiologist was puzzled as usual causes came back blank.Blood pressure being the usual cause.Mines normal.

However,Weight training does cause massive spikes in blood pressure.Now at 57, I cant afford to weaken the artery anymore.Im now reduced to light weights,"pumping" and cardio!!

The days of superslow, 2 minute leg presses to failure,a distant memory.


--Scott---
Not having tested my blood pressure when exercising I'm curious as to how much ones blood pressure goes up when weight training , especially if you breath correctly ?
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Ray200

My best wishes. It was great to read that you were still hitting the weights with intensity in your 50s. I hope you find an alternative method that will still yield results yet maintain your health.

Take care,
Ray
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HeavyHitter32

I would *think* CTF/congestion style training using as light of weight as possible (while focusing on making the muscle work harder) is the safest route in regards to this issue. You also get a decent cardio effect. Slow reps can cause higher blood pressure than faster reps (I've seen studies on this) as does going to failure. Check out some of the High Density Training stuff Johnston has written and talked about as well as Gironda. As always, check with your doctor but from the sounds of it, this is the direction he suggested.
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HeavyHitter32

Average Al wrote:
coomo wrote:
Looks like im gonna have to retire from HIT.Permanently.
Just have full medical ,as part of my
treatment for my heart arythmia.
Hearts all good, however, ive got Aortic dilation.Basically my "out" artery has increased in size.

Cardiologist was puzzled as usual causes came back blank.Blood pressure being the usual cause.Mines normal.

However,Weight training does cause massive spikes in blood pressure.Now at 57, I cant afford to weaken the artery anymore.Im now reduced to light weights,"pumping" and cardio!!

The days of superslow, 2 minute leg presses to failure,a distant memory.

Sounds serious - best of luck going forward.

Certain types of heart muscle hypertrophy (concentric left ventricle) have been associated with resistance training. But what you are describing sounds different. After googling a bit, it seems like you might be at higher risk for an aortic aneurysm, which is scary stuff. Being cautious is a very good strategy.

Did the doctor say that resistance training was a risk factor for developing this? I thought it was more often a congenital anomaly.




To my understanding, HIT or any weight training program does not cause this issue, but if one is susceptible to the issue or has it at a very early stage, such type of training can exacerbate the problem because HIT and especially SuperSlow reps can cause very high blood pressure spikes. I asked a cardiologist once about training to failure and he felt it was fine IF the person had no existing heart conditions, but he also questioned why train that hard if you're not competing and just someone who wants to stay in shape.

Going to failure with max load with slow reps in a longer TUT is not the ideal way to train in regards to preventing a very blood pressure spike. Statics are bad too in this regard. Shorter sets with short rest periods, more rhythmic speed, relatively lighter weight, focusing on contraction and feel, while avoiding utter failure is probably a safer way to train in this regard. As always, check with your doctor.
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coomo

Hi Guys,Ill try and answer all the questions in one go!
I suffered from Atrial fibrillation since I was 35.Ive had 3 ablations, which have "cured it"
Last month,I was having some weird ectopics(which i get)and decided to visit my cardiologist.After a 7 day monitor and echo cardiogram, everything came back fine.
However, the aortic dilation flagged up.
Ive seen another specialist, who is pretty puzzled.Its not related to any risk factors.No high BP,no obesity, no family history.
perhaps emotional stress, and /or HIT are the cause? Will probably never know.
HIT does spike BP horrendously,as does lifting in general.I can still lift, just not all out to gut busting failure.Plus all the cardio I want(I hate cardio)
Its a "modest" dilation.perhaps it will not increase anymore,if im n ot lying underneath Barbells every week!
Seems a common cuase of death of youg lifters, who like to use PEDS too.
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Tridentine

Sorry to hear this, Coomo.
You will be in my prayers.

May I please ask, what amount of weight were you using for what exercises?
God bless
Dan
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hit4me

Florida, USA

sorry to hear that sir,

however, i am curious, when it comes to spikes in blood pressure and training, what is the difference between slow rep training (i.e. 8-10 seconds) vs normal speed and fast speed rep training.

would love to hear from any cardiologist as i told my cardiologist this is how i train and he did not have any concerns at all.

or is it the pressure of holding ones breath when perfoming that last set to ultimate failure....which by the way i know longer perform, i always stop just short of failure as i do not want to injure myself.
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Frank Scott

Coomo what sort of set and rep range are you considering?
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coomo

Tridentine wrote:
Sorry to hear this, Coomo.
You will be in my prayers.

May I please ask, what amount of weight were you using for what exercises?
God bless
Dan

i dont really think weight is relavent, as it was heavy for me!
However, leg press on life was 110kg
Hammer chest about 60k,chins no weight and 80kg deads in a trap bar.Not heavy, but "rush factor" was used.

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coomo

hit4me wrote:
sorry to hear that sir,

however, i am curious, when it comes to spikes in blood pressure and training, what is the difference between slow rep training (i.e. 8-10 seconds) vs normal speed and fast speed rep training.

would love to hear from any cardiologist as i told my cardiologist this is how i train and he did not have any concerns at all.

or is it the pressure of holding ones breath when perfoming that last set to ultimate failure....which by the way i know longer perform, i always stop just short of failure as i do not want to injure myself.

Slowvrep is harder! also my sets were at least 1.30 and legs always 2 mins.Its a long time for BP to be elevated that high.

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BennyAnthonyOfKC

Missouri, USA

TO: Coomo
SUBJECTS: My Sympathies & SuperSlow

You certainly have my empathy regarding medical-ailments derailing a passion in exercise, and I hope that you'll continue to post here.

Coomo, I'd forgotten that you trained in SuperSlow; and, the reason this struck me is your mention of BLOOD-PRESSURE as a concern, which if you recall passages that Hutchins wrote (maybe under "Cold Feet" in his book) about blood-pressure might be a concern, except he also enjoyed demonstrating the even bigger change in blood-pressure during Hutchins' playing one of the "Brandenburg Concertos" on his trumpet!

((I'm uncertain what to make of all of this, I mean in regard to what Hutchins had to think about these matters, although I do believe that Hutchins may have taken issues concerning BLOOD-PRESSURE too lightly.))

RESOURCE:
https://en.wikipedia.org/...nburg_Concertos

VIDEO:
https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=EalocoXnta8
("Wynton Marsalis Bach Brandenburg Concerto No 2, Movement No 3 III Allegro Assai")

(((( EDITED FOR SPELLING ))))
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Greg Roseman

Virginia, USA

Read Dr. Mcguffs article on weight training. He says it's ideal for heart health.
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Average Al

One concern of the SS guys has always been to avoid using valsalva as a way to help brace the torso because it does contribute to blood pressure elevation. (It does, however, seem to be a pretty natural, almost reflexive response to lifting something heavy).

Having read arguments on both sides, I'm still not sure how important it is to avoid valsalva. Here is an article by an ER doctor, stroke specialist, and barbell guy, which tries to make the case that it isn't that risky:

http://startingstrength.com/...alva_and_stroke

As for blood pressure elevation without valsalva: it still happens, just as a consequence of the heart trying to pump blood into a contracted muscle. I would assume that the longer you sustain the contraction (Super Slow or long duration isometrics) the longer you are exposed this. Whether or not it presents a health risk, I don't know. But if you have pre-existing issues or defects, like an weak spot in an artery, it probably does create some increased risk.
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coomo

Greg Roseman wrote:
Read Dr. Mcguffs article on weight training. He says it's ideal for heart health.

Sorry what is "ideal for heart health"


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ron33

Hate to hear when anybody has medical condition , that prevents them from living as they want.. Good luck and hope you find training method that will work for you...It can be depressing , I know before my heart surgery I was told don't workout or do anything strenuous or u might drop over dead .. I could only do 5 bodyweight squats , 5-6 pushups about 2-3 pullups before I was out of breath and felt like passing out . somedays I would get fed up and try push hard and figure, piss on it, if I die , I die .. Health problems suck..
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