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Frank Scott

The super slow proponents recommend that you keep your jaw slack, breathe through the mouth and do not clench your teeth. Or anything else, which could elevate blood pressure. With lifting weights this is not easy
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1958

Texas, USA

Coomo,get a 2nd opinion on exercise prescription.
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HeavyHitter32

1958 wrote:
Coomo,get a 2nd opinion on exercise prescription.


Ummm, no sane doctor is going recommend maximum exertion with an aortic dilation for obvious reasons.
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hit4me

Florida, USA

I am just trying to wrap my head around why HIT or superslow would be any different than training 5 x 5 or 10 x 10 or 4 sets of 8 when it comes to blood pressure. Won't it spike or go up with ant type of weight training, even a light weight set of 100.

I understand the issue that coomo is facing and he should take all precautions to eliminate danger to himself,

I will have to my cardiologist the next time I have an appointment.
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StuKE

It's a shame you have to 'retire' from HIT, but you needn't think of it as a bad thing as such, just another fork in the m sure you will be able to keep in relatively good shape and enjoy your training, just in a different way and I wish you the best of luck.
I would like to talk about blood pressure and training as this is something I have become more aware of lately.
Think I may have mentioned before how I have had a few issues with blood pressure and training, despite my blood pressure always being normal in everyday life. I firmly believe I had some sort of very, very small, minor stroke during heavy 45 degree leg press many years ago. Very small, but very scary. Since then, in the following years I have had very strange sensations due to a build up of pressure in my head, from heavy training - not always to failure, sometimes quite a way off - but always when doing something heavy. I believe I am very careful with my breathing during reps, perhaps with the exception of the leg press all that time ago when I suspect I was not being quite careful enough. The latest was actually from a bike ride where I carried a huge rock in (and a lot of it sticking out) of my backpack. These sensations include a sustained, visibly reddened head, unnatural tightness, in one case down one side of my head only, headache, extreme tiredness (even when stood up I felt a strong desire to close my eyes and go to sleep). The effects of the leg press incident were more extreme.
So, with a background of heavy, originally powerlifting based training, I spent many years training with relatively heavy reps, particularly in the 1 to 6 rep ranges. Even when I was a young teenager, squatting in my garage, my dad would sometimes spot me and he would tell me he did not like how the whole of the back of my head would go red from the pressure. I would see stars whilst squatting regularly. I was ok for most of this time I might add, the vast majority with no problems. But these days, it feels like the muscles can often take the weight, but the weaklinks can be the joints, blood pressure.
I don't mind admitting, I have more or less chosen to train lighter nowadays, I really don't care if I gain muscle or not, at 43 I am happy to be training and enjoying being in shape. I still train hard, but my training has sort of gravitated back towards something I did for a while during breaks from the usual heavier style. I have lost a bit of condition from infrequent workouts, so can't manage as much as I would like yet, but it is coming back. The idea, and what worked for me before was to train full body (though it could be split easily enough) with a fixed weight per exercise, sets of perhaps 10 to 15 with rest of only 15 seconds. It is not about failure, more compressed workload. I would do 4 sets, often only one or two exercises per muscle and I could be done, pumped, breathing hard, but not drained in about 30 mins. Sometimes less.
I can't remember if I grew from this before, but I remember liking it, despite it being very different to my usual style. Currently it is one to 2 muscles a day, same sort of style but more sets, working full body in around 5 days. Training like this allows me to let injured joints recover, it has more aerobic benefit,I get sore from it and don't have any pressure problems etc. Of course sometimes the heavy weights call out to me, and if they do, I can give them q go, no problem, but primarily, it is lighter (much lighter) these days.
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Greg Roseman

Virginia, USA

Dr. Mcguffs states that weight training increases flow back to the heart and increases a more powerful out put of blood from the heart, Google mcguffs articles for weight training and heart health.
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

Something about consistently making an 'All-Out' push on the final rep or partial is what MAY be making the difference.
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Average Al

Greg Roseman wrote:
Dr. Mcguffs states that weight training increases flow back to the heart and increases a more powerful out put of blood from the heart, Google mcguffs articles for weight training and heart health.


The issue is what happens to blood pressure as you try to sustain a strong muscle contraction for an extended period of time, as in a Super Slow set.

I haven't been able to find any graphs I can link to, but here is one abstract that highlights the concern:


Cardiovascular response to sustained maximal voluntary static muscle contraction.

Misner JE1, Going SB, Massey BH, Ball TE, Bemben MG, Essandoh LK.

Abstract
The cardiovascular response to maximal, voluntary, sustained 2-min static contraction by three different muscle groups (right hand finger flexors [RHF], right leg extensors [RLE], and both leg extensors [BLE]) was studied in young adult males (N = 13) and females (N = 14). Systolic blood pressure (SBP), diastolic blood pressure (DBP), and heart rate (HR) were recorded at 30 s intervals prior to, during, and after exercise. Mean arterial blood pressure (MABP) and pulse pressure (PP) were computed from SBP and DBP. The force of muscle contraction was monitored continuously throughout the 2-min task. Data were analyzed by MANOVA. The results showed that impulse (force x time) declined significantly throughout exercise, and there were significant differences in impulse among muscle groups. SBP, DBP, PP, and MABP increased significantly throughout the 2-min contraction period, while heart rate increased initially and then leveled off. The magnitudes of the blood pressure and HR responses were related to the muscles involved: BLE greater than RLE greater than RHF. Blood pressures during rest and exercise were significantly lower for females than for males, but there was no sex effect for heart rate. These findings suggest that blood pressure increases throughout sustained static muscular contractions despite significant reductions in force production. Heart rate, on the other hand, does not increase throughout exercise under these conditions. It appears that heart rate and blood pressure responses to sustained static contraction are mediated by different mechanisms, but these mechanisms are similar for males and females.
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HeavyHitter32

Could Exercise Cause Aortic Dissection?

http://www.livestrong.com/...tic-dissection/
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HeavyHitter32

hit4me wrote:
I am just trying to wrap my head around why HIT or superslow would be any different than training 5 x 5 or 10 x 10 or 4 sets of 8 when it comes to blood pressure. Won't it spike or go up with ant type of weight training, even a light weight set of 100.

I understand the issue that coomo is facing and he should take all precautions to eliminate danger to himself,

I will have to my cardiologist the next time I have an appointment.


There's a lot of research on this actually. The potential issue is, extra stress placed upon the artery. A higher blood pressure increases the stress.

Now, what is the most stressful form of weight training? A heavier load with a greater intensity of effort. Slow reps seem to increase blood pressure more so than faster reps. Lot of studies show this.

But high resting blood pressure has been associated with the issue as well. Make sure your resting blood pressure is normal as this is obviously important in general.

Most people are very unlikely to come across the issue, but having just turned 45, I do like to try and minimize risks using only the required amount of load possible to work the muscle versus my younger years where I tried to lift as much weight as possible to absolute failure for a single set with a slow cadence (i.e Heavy Duty).

Any type of training will increase blood pressure, but it's about how much and to what degree. Load and effort being keys.

High intensity training is very demanding on the body in multiple ways.
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coomo

I actually decided to contact my Cadiologist, after some weird ectopics, that happened after a bowel movement.
The exact same experience happened 3 times.Sitting on chair working on pc.Desire to evacuate my bowels.Walked upstairs, then ectopics began within few moments of completion.
The Vaslsalva effect, which causes a rapid rise, then drop in blood pressure, maybe to blame.
Also "bearing down" ie forcing to clear your bowels, has be indictated in some mortalities.The most famous maybe Elvis.
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HeavyHitter32

coomo wrote:

Also "bearing down" ie forcing to clear your bowels, has be indictated in some mortalities.The most famous maybe Elvis.


One of my uncles passed away this way.
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hit4me

Florida, USA

HeavyHitter32 wrote:
coomo wrote:

Also "bearing down" ie forcing to clear your bowels, has be indictated in some mortalities.The most famous maybe Elvis.

One of my uncles passed away this way.


Elvis weakened his heart thru the over medication of prescription drugs and he was also about 50 lbs overweight in his last year or two.
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HeavyHitter32

hit4me wrote:
HeavyHitter32 wrote:
coomo wrote:

Also "bearing down" ie forcing to clear your bowels, has be indictated in some mortalities.The most famous maybe Elvis.

One of my uncles passed away this way.

Elvis weakened his heart thru the over medication of prescription drugs and he was also about 50 lbs overweight in his last year or two.


My uncle weighed as much as 685 pounds at one point...although had lost some weight by the time of his death.
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

hit4me wrote:
HeavyHitter32 wrote:
coomo wrote:

Also "bearing down" ie forcing to clear your bowels, has be indictated in some mortalities.The most famous maybe Elvis.

One of my uncles passed away this way.

Elvis weakened his heart thru the over medication of prescription drugs and he was also about 50 lbs overweight in his last year or two.


"Some" mortalities?! This happens to thousands of people a year, maybe tens of thousands. Check your fiber prescription, as well as your exercise one...
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

hit4me wrote:
...Elvis weakened his heart thru the over medication of prescription drugs and he was also about 50 lbs overweight in his last year or two.


Elvis was also on painkillers, many of which are known to cause constipation.
(that's the part they never got into on 'House')
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hit4me

Florida, USA

back to hit and superslow and blood pressure:
I understand that the last all-out balls to walls last rep to failure(which I no longer perform) would be a significant cause of spiking the blood pressure to high levels, however,
what rep cadence would be considered a method spiking the blood pressure too much
4-4, 2-4, 8-8, 10-10 or 30-30

thx in advance



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HeavyHitter32

hit4me wrote:
back to hit and superslow and blood pressure:
I understand that the last all-out balls to walls last rep to failure(which I no longer perform) would be a significant cause of spiking the blood pressure to high levels, however,
what rep cadence would be considered a method spiking the blood pressure too much
4-4, 2-4, 8-8, 10-10 or 30-30

thx in advance





As I said before, from research I have read, in general, a slower rep cadence increases blood pressure more so than a faster rep cadence. But it's also multi-faceted. I definitely wouldn't do SuperSlow though.

Pretty good article that summarizes the matter in regards to blood pressure and training.

One of the biggest points in all of this is to make sure your resting blood pressure is kept under control. High blood pressure even when not exercising greatly increases risk of aortic dissection.

https://www.cooperinstitute.or...
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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

I don't think any normal rep cadence would spike BP more than another, as long as you're breathing right.

If there's one thing the SS gang got right, it's the short breathing pattern. But, you don't need to be utilizing SS to apply it.

I guess the main thing is to avoid the VS maneuver when pushing/pulling your hardest. And, as sirloin noted in another thread, avoid excessive gripping at all costs.
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HeavyHitter32

Breathing is always important, but slow reps cause greater intra-thoracic and intra-abdominal pressure which increase blood pressure. This is why statics cause greater rise too. Faster reps give more "breaks" or interruption during a set in this regard which helps.

However, there are multiple factors involved as the article I linked laid out and need to be considered in the full context of it all.

For example, a 60 second sub failure superslow set might cause less of an increase in blood pressure compared to a faster rep 5 rep max set to failure set where the load is heavier and the intensity is greater - two other factors involved in it all.

Going to failure on the curl is not going to spike blood pressure like going to failure on squats, etc.

It just comes down to the 'overall' demands really, but it's good to understand the variables at play IMO.

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hit4me

Florida, USA

simon-hecubus wrote:
I don't think any normal rep cadence would spike BP more than another, as long as you're breathing right.

If there's one thing the SS gang got right, it's the short breathing pattern. But, you don't need to be utilizing SS to apply it.

I guess the main thing is to avoid the VS maneuver when pushing/pulling your hardest. And, as sirloin noted in another thread, avoid excessive gripping at all costs.


excessive gripping and neck straining was against Arthur Jones nautilus principals

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hit4me

Florida, USA

HeavyHitter32 wrote:
hit4me wrote:
back to hit and superslow and blood pressure:
I understand that the last all-out balls to walls last rep to failure(which I no longer perform) would be a significant cause of spiking the blood pressure to high levels, however,
what rep cadence would be considered a method spiking the blood pressure too much
4-4, 2-4, 8-8, 10-10 or 30-30

thx in advance





As I said before, from research I have read, in general, a slower rep cadence increases blood pressure more so than a faster rep cadence. But it's also multi-faceted. I definitely wouldn't do SuperSlow though.

Pretty good article that summarizes the matter in regards to blood pressure and training.

One of the biggest points in all of this is to make sure your resting blood pressure is kept under control. High blood pressure even when not exercising greatly increases risk of aortic dissection.

https://www.cooperinstitute.or...

good article but I have a hard time believing the study...first of all its from the father of aerobics (Cooper) and second (if I am reading it correctly) one of their studies reached a blood pressure of 450/350...would not that individual be dead with a blood pressure like that

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hit4me

Florida, USA

I have two recipes to help lower blood pressure:
1. organic beet juice, no sugar added and hardpressed, 4oz in morning and 4oz in the evening. Tastes very earthy but its worth it. Brought my blood pressure down 10 points after 5 days.

2. Cup of hot water, 1/2 lemon juiced, crushed garlic, tablespoon apple cider vinegar, honey and a dash of cayenne pepper. drink once or twice a day.

be careful if you are on blood pressure meds as it could lower more than you want. I am on meds and my blood pressure would vary from good to pre-hypertension, after drinking these recipes consistently for a couple of weeks, my blood pressure has always been good. resting blood pressure that is.
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HeavyHitter32

hit4me wrote:

good article but I have a hard time believing the study...first of all its from the father of aerobics (Cooper) and second (if I am reading it correctly) one of their studies reached a blood pressure of 450/350...would not that individual be dead with a blood pressure like that



Aerobic exercise is important and I guarantee you ANY cardiologist you would ever visit would tell you that even though Cooper was overboard on them a long time ago. But Jones was way overboard with intensity, 3 days a week 15 exercises full body workouts to failure which is probably worse on the heart and intolerable to anyone drug free. Still the study wasn't done by Cooper himself, but the essence of what was stated has been noted in many other studies.

On any rate, avoid extreme blood pressures with your training (especially if you have high blood pressure already as it sounds) and follow common sense guidelines. Don't stay married to HIT dogma.
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hit4me

Florida, USA

HeavyHitter32 wrote:
hit4me wrote:

good article but I have a hard time believing the study...first of all its from the father of aerobics (Cooper) and second (if I am reading it correctly) one of their studies reached a blood pressure of 450/350...would not that individual be dead with a blood pressure like that



Aerobic exercise is important and I guarantee you ANY cardiologist you would ever visit would tell you that even though Cooper was overboard on them a long time ago. But Jones was way overboard with intensity, 3 days a week 15 exercises full body workouts to failure which is probably worse on the heart and intolerable to anyone drug free. Still the study wasn't done by Cooper himself, but the essence of what was stated has been noted in many other studies.

On any rate, avoid extreme blood pressures with your training (especially if you have high blood pressure already as it sounds) and follow common sense guidelines. Don't stay married to HIT dogma.


agreed that aerobic exercise is important, but the aerobics that cooper came up with is all dogma too....i see too many people making no gains doing aerobics
not married to HIT anymore as i agree that going to all out failure is also not good for us older folks or individuals with high blood pressure or heart disease
i was diagnosed wih high blood pressure but it was mainly mecause of my anxiety levels were elevated too much. Blood pressure is good and maintained as such with meds, supplements, diet and exercise. Cardiologist has said that my heart is good and has no concerns.

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