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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
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must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
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This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

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Lat Machine Ab Crunch
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MikaelPR

I have limited abdominal work to chins, push ups and the Nautilus clamshell machine, but have begun to experiment with overhead cable crunches. Anyone have any tips re: the finer points of this exercise ?
Thanks
Mike
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hit4me

Florida, USA

MikaelPR wrote:
I have limited abdominal work to chins, push ups and the Nautilus clamshell machine, but have begun to experiment with overhead cable crunches. Anyone have any tips re: the finer points of this exercise ?
Thanks
Mike


keep the weight light and focus on form for about 75 reps, do 4/4 cadence with a squeeze at contraction

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Grant D

Illinois, USA

I would avoid any direct abdominal work as they will achieve adequate overload in a few block chain events such as a Max Pyramid Pulldown. Virtually impossible to load these muscles without severe outroad and performance inclinations leading to offloading. This is a reason so/too many machines were designed and never ever used. Not only don't they work ... they cannot work do to the many moments and leveraging changes during the dynamics. A question with no good rational solution as asked. But best answer is to NOT attempt "directly"
Grant

hit4me wrote:
MikaelPR wrote:
I have limited abdominal work to chins, push ups and the Nautilus clamshell machine, but have begun to experiment with overhead cable crunches. Anyone have any tips re: the finer points of this exercise ?
Thanks
Mike

keep the weight light and focus on form for about 75 reps, do 4/4 cadence with a squeeze at contraction



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HeavyHitter32

Grant D. wrote:
I would avoid any direct abdominal work as they will achieve adequate overload in a few block chain events such as a Max Pyramid Pulldown. Virtually impossible to load these muscles without severe outroad and performance inclinations leading to offloading. This is a reason so/too many machines were designed and never ever used. Not only don't they wirk ... they cannot worth due to the many mpment and changing during the dynamics. A question with no good rationsl solution as asked. But best answer is to NOT attempt "diretly"
Grant



This is nonsense.

Hanging leg raises and crunches have developed my abs more so than ever relying on compound movements. I never did ab work until about a year ago. Twenty six years of training before that with none. All you are doing with heavy pulldowns is "outroading" (what you supposedly rail against) if your are getting your abs worked that hard from compounds. The pulldown should *primarily* be hitting your lats.
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sonny153

here's a recent ab picture, my favorite bodypart to train. Boy I wish I had some good advice to your question because I think I've tried every ab exercise known (and a couple unknown lol) and I think they all contributed something. If your body fat is low enough you'll probably show good abs regardless of what you do so let that be your primary focus.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

. Virtually impossible to load these muscles without severe outroad and performance inclinations leading to offloading.

==Scott==
Funny how everything with him is based on outroading or offloading. Isn't typing on his key board offroading his wrists and fingers?
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

==Scott==
I could be wrong but I believe Goronda said don't work the solaplexas, or how ever you spell it, any more than any other muscle. Hundreds of reps for the abs doesn't work to build the muscle or help it lose blubber.
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HeavyHitter32

When I did physical therapy for my knees about a year ago, the PT told me the importance of doing direct ab training. With some tests, I was shocked (actually kind of embarrassed) at just how weak my abs were. But she said she saw this all of the time with lifters - some of whom carried plenty of muscle too. Yes, of course, compounds work the abs but the lack of isolation moves can develop imbalances and compounds don't fully develop that region in typical cases.

On any rate, with direct ab training I was surprised to see an increase in the "girdle" effect as well as more of ab ripple which I didn't have before as my bodyfat had stayed the same as well. So it wasn't a matter of getting leaner that showed improvement - it was the result of new development.

This reminds me of the same kind of thing where some people said single joint movements are not needed for arms. Yeah right.
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Nwlifter

entsminger wrote:
==Scott==
I could be wrong but I believe Goronda said don't work the solaplexas, or how ever you spell it, any more than any other muscle. Hundreds of reps for the abs doesn't work to build the muscle or help it lose blubber.


Yeah, he said it would shock the nerves and stunt muscle growth. I donnnnn't think that's true, but it wont' burn subcutaneous fat, that's true. It will use intra-muscular lipids, so that part is good though.
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MikaelPR

hit4me wrote:
MikaelPR wrote:
I have limited abdominal work to chins, push ups and the Nautilus clamshell machine, but have begun to experiment with overhead cable crunches. Anyone have any tips re: the finer points of this exercise ?
Thanks
Mike

keep the weight light and focus on form for about 75 reps, do 4/4 cadence with a squeeze at contraction



Thanks for the advice. Going to give the light weight/high reps a go.
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g0ld3nuncw

North Carolina, USA

Michael,
My ab routine usually is :

-Slant board leg lifts
-Ab clam machine
-Cable stack ab crunches
-Rotary torso

On the ab crunches, I use a nylon strap instead of a rope. This way I don't have to squeeze with my grip, just kind of karate like place my hands in the loops.
I make sure I exhale as I lower the weight so there is no air as I get to the bottom to squeeze and pause. I do about 15 with 130 lbs or so. Great burn.
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Crotalus


Thanks for the advice. Going to give the light weight/high reps a go.


' Weights ' ? You mean gravity circuit ?
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backtrack

For me, every muscle group should be worked directly with, dare I say, "isolation exercises."

I know some people live by compounds and indirect effect - I don't.

I don't like cable crunches I find they do a better job burning out the biceps.

I agree leg raises work the abdominal muscles to good effect. I personally find medicine ball twists do a good job.

I think Sonny is on to something trying lots of different exercises. I think this is why I find biceps so easy to develop with a pair of dumbbells and a barbell you can do many different exercises.
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1958

Texas, USA

MikaelPR wrote:
hit4me wrote:
MikaelPR wrote:
I have limited abdominal work to chins, push ups and the Nautilus clamshell machine, but have begun to experiment with overhead cable crunches. Anyone have any tips re: the finer points of this exercise ?
Thanks
Mike

keep the weight light and focus on form for about 75 reps, do 4/4 cadence with a squeeze at contraction
Uhhhh...75 reps at 4/4? That's a set lasting 10 minutes!


Thanks for the advice. Going to give the light weight/high reps a go.


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entsminger

Virginia, USA

MikaelPR wrote:
hit4me wrote:
MikaelPR wrote:
I have limited abdominal work to chins, push ups and the Nautilus clamshell machine, but have begun to experiment with overhead cable crunches. Anyone have any tips re: the finer points of this exercise ?
Thanks
Mike

keep the weight light and focus on form for about 75 reps, do 4/4 cadence with a squeeze at contraction



Thanks for the advice. Going to give the light weight/high reps a go.


==Scott==
I'm curious as to why the high reps? Why would the abs need such higher reps than most other muscles?
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StuKE

Definitely more about feeling it than chasing weight. I used to do them with a single pulley handle and squeeze down and sidewards.

I think Grant has shot himself in the foot with his comments.

It is probably true that any lifter with low enough bodyfat will have good abs, but to have great abs, you have to work them hard.

I would not immediately dismiss the high reps / volume approach as it has led to some great abs throughout history. Personally though, I prefer no higher than maybe 15 reps a set with more weight.
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hit4me

Florida, USA

entsminger wrote:
MikaelPR wrote:
hit4me wrote:
MikaelPR wrote:
I have limited abdominal work to chins, push ups and the Nautilus clamshell machine, but have begun to experiment with overhead cable crunches. Anyone have any tips re: the finer points of this exercise ?
Thanks
Mike

keep the weight light and focus on form for about 75 reps, do 4/4 cadence with a squeeze at contraction



Thanks for the advice. Going to give the light weight/high reps a go.

==Scott==
I'm curious as to why the high reps? Why would the abs need such higher reps than most other muscles?


you don't want to use heavy weight for abs, therefore lower weight with higher reps
the reason i chose 75 was because of Roger Callards workout routine advice

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hit4me

Florida, USA

1958 wrote:
MikaelPR wrote:
hit4me wrote:
MikaelPR wrote:
I have limited abdominal work to chins, push ups and the Nautilus clamshell machine, but have begun to experiment with overhead cable crunches. Anyone have any tips re: the finer points of this exercise ?
Thanks
Mike

keep the weight light and focus on form for about 75 reps, do 4/4 cadence with a squeeze at contraction
Uhhhh...75 reps at 4/4? That's a set lasting 10 minutes!


Thanks for the advice. Going to give the light weight/high reps a go.



yes it is, and who cares how long the set lasts

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backtrack

Muscles need coaxing and not to be forced. This is why for me typical HIT is no good.
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sirloin

Up until recently, I thought direct ab work was unnecessary, but ive come to realise their the first thing that gives out on heavy deadlifts, farmers walks and super yoke walks. I started using standing cable crunches (facing away from the station), landmine side to side weighted sweeps and now hanging leg raises. I believe the my gym is getting a seated double crunch machine, ill be using that when it comes. Personally i like low to medium reps.
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Grant D

Illinois, USA

32 ... I cannot outroad on my "movements" since they are motionless.
Even with "compound" "movements" ... However, since the blockchain is a compound hold ... all muscles will fatigue and inroad. In some cases a weak(er) link may develop as one progresses which must be bypassed to allow proper loading (more gravity circuited weight) to occur ... such as wrist hooks to bypass grip/forearms.

What may appear to you as a compound movement is actually a compound muscle groups hold :)

Cheers Grant

HeavyHitter32 wrote:
Grant D. wrote:
I would avoid any direct abdominal work as they will achieve adequate overload in a few block chain events such as a Max Pyramid Pulldown. Virtually impossible to load these muscles without severe outroad and performance inclinations leading to offloading. This is a reason so/too many machines were designed and never ever used. Not only don't they wirk ... they cannot worth due to the many mpment and changing during the dynamics. A question with no good rationsl solution as asked. But best answer is to NOT attempt "diretly"
Grant



This is nonsense.

Hanging leg raises and crunches have developed my abs more so than ever relying on compound movements. I never did ab work until about a year ago. Twenty six years of training before that with none. All you are doing with heavy pulldowns is "outroading" (what you supposedly rail against) if your are getting your abs worked that hard from compounds. The pulldown should *primarily* be hitting your lats.


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Grant D

Illinois, USA

Ent ...

Offloading and Outroading are the main reason that virtually no one here makes progress anymore.
The skill of gaming a movement exceed one's volitional ability to control and isolate the load into a large enough level of intensity.
Most are not aware of this travesty of outroading since it is non-intentional. As one progresses they must reduce motion to avoid the "opportunity" to cheat, game, heave, squiggle, chalk, perform, coach,
coax ...

Grant ... "Let's #MEPA in 2018 for someone besides just me"

entsminger wrote:
. Virtually impossible to load these muscles without severe outroad and performance inclinations leading to offloading.

==Scott==
Funny how everything with him is based on outroading or offloading. Isn't typing on his key board offroading his wrists and fingers?


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Grant D

Illinois, USA

Ent ... correct, not only don't work em .. they cannot be worked directly with any progress ... except newbie gains ... assuming one is lean enough to see em. However, we cannot confuse leanness and muscle definition with strength, mass, size.

entsminger wrote:
==Scott==
I could be wrong but I believe Goronda said don't work the solaplexas, or how ever you spell it, any more than any other muscle. Hundreds of reps for the abs doesn't work to build the muscle or help it lose blubber.


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Grant D

Illinois, USA

In my experience my abs are always worked intensely enough for gains through a block chain of compound muscles. In particular my Max Pyramid Pull Down and Max Pyramid Back Extension. This is from my knowledge of the Big 2 or Big 3 or Big 5 sessions as prescribed by Little and refined from 2009 to 2017. Of course I might do a direct muscle exercise perhaps once every three months ... and these are usually as a self test.

Cheers ... Grant
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farhad

Massachusetts, USA

MikaelPR wrote:
I have limited abdominal work to chins, push ups and the Nautilus clamshell machine, but have begun to experiment with overhead cable crunches. Anyone have any tips re: the finer points of this exercise ?
Thanks
Mike


1) Keep your abs engaged the whole time

2)Do not let your hips rock and and forth. Most of the movement should be performed by the torso. Whether you flex the spine or not depends on your mobility.

3) During the negative only go high enough to keep maximum tension on the abs, pause for a full second before crunching back down.

4) each rep should take about 3-4 seconds.15-20 reps per set should do the job.

Hope this helps.
f
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