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Interesting Discussion with Trainer: Cardio, Protein
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hit4me

Florida, USA

i spoke with a female personal trainer yesterday about my goals of leaning down and she told me some interesting things that i think is kinda bull, but would like your alls take on it..she told me (she is in her 40s, not that should matter)

-cardio increases estrogen in men and lowers testosterone...which is why men should lift more days of the week than cardio (never heard that one)
-she suggested a 60-20-20 diet...i.e. 60% protein, 20% carbs and 20% fat

that is a helluva lot of protein for a 215 lb man...no way would i do that

comments anyone
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sirloin

hit4me wrote:
i spoke with a female personal trainer yesterday about my goals of leaning down and she told me some interesting things that i think is kinda bull, but would like your alls take on it..she told me (she is in her 40s, not that should matter)

-cardio increases estrogen in men and lowers testosterone...which is why men should lift more days of the week than cardio (never heard that one)
-she suggested a 60-20-20 diet...i.e. 60% protein, 20% carbs and 20% fat

that is a helluva lot of protein for a 215 lb man...no way would i do that

comments anyone


A few things come to mind...

Goldbergs reaserch....i.e., muscle can be build on a starvation diet...

Sergio Olivias maintianing increadible mass eating pizza and coke, or Casey and cheeseburgers (yes they where on drugs and had freak genes)....

Matt "the hammer" Hammel in season 3 of the ultimate figther, he was by far the strongest most powerful guy in the house, and he lived on peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and cherrios, while the other house mates ate green smooties, chicken, rice and broccoli etc.

For myself, ive gained muscle eating nothing but crap and while eating "healthly", Dave Landeu talked about this in one of his CW interviews.

Bottom line, my trainers are on commission to sale supplements within these gyms, her recommendation waaayyyy above what reputable sports nutritionists would or have recommended. Is she even quilified to give nutritional advice?


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HeavyHitter32

Dump her.
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Bastion

sirloin wrote:
hit4me wrote:
i spoke with a female personal trainer yesterday about my goals of leaning down and she told me some interesting things that i think is kinda bull, but would like your alls take on it..she told me (she is in her 40s, not that should matter)

-cardio increases estrogen in men and lowers testosterone...which is why men should lift more days of the week than cardio (never heard that one)
-she suggested a 60-20-20 diet...i.e. 60% protein, 20% carbs and 20% fat

that is a helluva lot of protein for a 215 lb man...no way would i do that

comments anyone


A few things come to mind...

Goldbergs reaserch....i.e., muscle can be build on a starvation diet...

Sergio Olivias maintianing increadible mass eating pizza and coke, or Casey and cheeseburgers (yes they where on drugs and had freak genes)....

Matt "the hammer" Hammel in season 3 of the ultimate figther, he was by far the strongest most powerful guy in the house, and he lived on peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and cherrios, while the other house mates ate green smooties, chicken, rice and broccoli etc.

For myself, ive gained muscle eating nothing but crap and while eating "healthly", Dave Landeu talked about this in one of his CW interviews.

Bottom line, my trainers are on commission to sale supplements within these gyms, her recommendation waaayyyy above what reputable sports nutritionists would or have recommended. Is she even quilified to give nutritional advice?




No doubt I made my best gains in strength and overall size back when I could eat a large pizza and 40 wings. 3 big Macs or mcdoubles at a time. The odd case of beer on weekends. Potato salad before bed etc. Now, 2 days of eating like that would have me bloated and feeling like pure shit.
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Resultsbased

This sounds like a golden opportunity to "do the opposite" as Dr. Darden and AJ have talked about!
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hit4me

Florida, USA

HeavyHitter32 wrote:
Dump her.


oh, she is not mine....just a friends girlfriend

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Crotalus

hit4me wrote:

-she suggested a 60-20-20 diet...i.e. 60% protein, 20% carbs and 20% fat

comments anyone


I don't know what my rations are but definitely carbs are way down .... seldom more than 100 grams a day and sodium is low too though I have gone too low with sodium and became weaker in the gym until brought it up a little .

I was on a high carb / low calorie diet like Darden suggests for years because that was what the HIT people advocated and was miserable staying on it ... always hungry and never got as lean as I wanted to be and that was when I was younger.

Switched to low carb about ten years ago and never looked back. Seldom hungry, sometimes even have to remember to eat and am leaner than I ever was eating high carb. Everyones different.

They say you cant stay on a low carb diet but how long can you handle a 1000-1200 calories ?

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Average Al

I'm pretty sure that extreme volumes of endurance training will lower testosterone levels. There was a case of an elite American runner, Ryan Hall, who basically had to retire from the sport after his T level dropped very low, and he could hardly function, much less compete. He subsequently started lifting and eating, gained 40 lbs, and is doing much better now. I'd be surprise if such outcomes occur with modest levels of cardio.

As for protein intake - Brad Schoenfeld, and Alan Aragon seem to be pretty knowledgeable about this stuff. I'd go with their recommendations. I do know that as you get older, you need to bump the number up as older people tend to become less able to utilize a given amount of protein.

My experience is that if you rely on natural sources of protein (meat, eggs, dairy), you will get a lot of fat with the protein. Without protein supplements, or eating nothing but lean chicken, it would be hard to get 60% protein and 20% fat.
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HeavyHitter32

Anything extreme will lower T levels including too much weight training, getting too fat, too many calories, too much alcohol, too little sleep, too much stress, etc.
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Nwlifter

Yep, that's the kind of info. people who don't actually research give. they find some odd method/way of eating and push it.

60% protein... so for 3k calories thats 450 grams of protein????? Okey dokey...

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sonny153

I've read where too much cardio can lower testosterone but not sure if it actually increases estrogen, one thing I know for sure is that it has never helped me get lean. People have all kinds of ratios and maybe something like that worked for her but it does sound a little extreme to me, if you want to do ratios try first to figure what a negative calorie balance of 200 - 300 a day for yourself would be and do 33% each of protein carbs and fat figured by calories.
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HDLou

hit4me wrote:
i spoke with a female personal trainer yesterday about my goals of leaning down and she told me some interesting things that i think is kinda bull, but would like your alls take on it..she told me (she is in her 40s, not that should matter)

-cardio increases estrogen in men and lowers testosterone...which is why men should lift more days of the week than cardio (never heard that one)
-she suggested a 60-20-20 diet...i.e. 60% protein, 20% carbs and 20% fat

that is a helluva lot of protein for a 215 lb man...no way would i do that

comments anyone


Does she make a commission on the protein powder your gym sells?
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PTDaniel

hit4me wrote:
i spoke with a female personal trainer yesterday about my goals of leaning down and she told me some interesting things that i think is kinda bull, but would like your alls take on it..she told me (she is in her 40s, not that should matter)

-cardio increases estrogen in men and lowers testosterone...which is why men should lift more days of the week than cardio (never heard that one)
-she suggested a 60-20-20 diet...i.e. 60% protein, 20% carbs and 20% fat

that is a helluva lot of protein for a 215 lb man...no way would i do that

comments anyone


Even if it is true, how is this relevant? Your goal is to lose fat, not lower estrogen.

In regards to diet, did she talk about a caloric deficit or just focus on the protein/carb/fat ratios? She's recommending a lot of protein for low caloric deficits, but it's not a lot of protein for a large caloric deficit.
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hit4me

Florida, USA

HDLou wrote:
hit4me wrote:
i spoke with a female personal trainer yesterday about my goals of leaning down and she told me some interesting things that i think is kinda bull, but would like your alls take on it..she told me (she is in her 40s, not that should matter)

-cardio increases estrogen in men and lowers testosterone...which is why men should lift more days of the week than cardio (never heard that one)
-she suggested a 60-20-20 diet...i.e. 60% protein, 20% carbs and 20% fat

that is a helluva lot of protein for a 215 lb man...no way would i do that

comments anyone


Does she make a commission on the protein powder your gym sells?


she does not work or work out at my gym

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hit4me

Florida, USA

PTDaniel wrote:
hit4me wrote:
i spoke with a female personal trainer yesterday about my goals of leaning down and she told me some interesting things that i think is kinda bull, but would like your alls take on it..she told me (she is in her 40s, not that should matter)

-cardio increases estrogen in men and lowers testosterone...which is why men should lift more days of the week than cardio (never heard that one)
-she suggested a 60-20-20 diet...i.e. 60% protein, 20% carbs and 20% fat

that is a helluva lot of protein for a 215 lb man...no way would i do that

comments anyone


Even if it is true, how is this relevant? Your goal is to lose fat, not lower estrogen.

In regards to diet, did she talk about a caloric deficit or just focus on the protein/carb/fat ratios? She's recommending a lot of protein for low caloric deficits, but it's not a lot of protein for a large caloric deficit.


i told her what i ate in a day and she told me to change it to 60/20/20 so i calculated out what it would be at about 215 lbs and it comes out to about 1200 calories of protein per day...in my opinion that is way too much protein (for me anyways)

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