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Vince Gironda 8x8 Routine
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hit4me

Florida, USA

was reading up a little on Gironda's 8x8 full body routine and i think i am gonna try it.
looking for advice on how many exercises and how to select the weight without killing myself the first day.
i plan on doing full body 3x/week or should i only do 2.

thx in advance
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Crotalus

hit4me wrote:
was reading up a little on Gironda's 8x8 full body routine and i think i am gonna try it.
thx in advance


Wow, good for you. I don't knock Gironda like most HIT people do ... and the 8X8 routine will no doubt kick your ass. I've attempted it a number of times but never got through it.

One thing is being addicted to HIT and very low volume for so long , my 'attention span' to stay on the same exercise for more than three sets sucks.

The other thing was having those first sets too easy being used to every rep of every set to be hard while training in HIT for years and years.

The closest I ever came to 8X8 is 5X5 and 5X8 but didn't stick with it long enough because of those two reasons I mentioned. I'm not saying for a second it isn't a great way to train. My problem is I trained in one way too long to give it an honest try ... I'm the problem with it, not the 8X8 approach. HITers criticized it for being easy but that's bullshit.

Petrella has a You Tube video showing it being used in Pull Downs ... check it out. Nice seeing a Nautilus guy recognizing another way of training that was so opposite HIT.

Also, Turpin has used it so maybe he'll respond with suggestions.

Good luck and definitely keep us posted !!
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HeavyHitter32

hit4me wrote:
was reading up a little on Gironda's 8x8 full body routine and i think i am gonna try it.
looking for advice on how many exercises and how to select the weight without killing myself the first day.
i plan on doing full body 3x/week or should i only do 2.

thx in advance


I wouldn't attempt it especially for the first time over a full body workout. I would do an upper/lower split at minimum and be sure not to use too much weight.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Choose one exercise or body part to do 8 x 8... and then the rest of the workout would be typical (1-2 sets each body part or whatever you usually do full body). Once you get used to it you can increase the demands for more 8x8, or simply keep the 8x8 as a specialization method for select muscles.
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Crotalus

HeavyHitter32 wrote:
I wouldn't attempt it especially for the first time over a full body workout. I would do an upper/lower split at minimum and be sure not to use too much weight.


Definitely some kind of split , at least to start unless using only three movements per workout. How long would a full body routine in 8X8 take ?

For me a three body part split routine , ten minutes a part, comes out to around 30-35 for a around 16/18 set total.

Maybe three exercises 8X8 to cover the whole body ... dips, pull downs and leg press ... could be done in about the same time ?
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Ray200

Buy "Unleashing the Wild Physique". Can be had pretty cheaply nowadays. I'm not sure if it's been updated recently but there's enough information to keep you happy.

Best,
Ray
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Turpin

Gironda advocated x 1 exercise per bodypart for 8 x 8 and an upper / lower split.

I have used this routine ( & still do at times on certain exercises ).
Choose a weight that you can perform 12 reps with and perform sets of 8 reps with only 30 secs respite between sets.

1.
Gironda style dips
Pullup
High pull
Drag curl
Tricep pushdown

2.
Sissy squat
Leg curl
Calf raise ( 20+ reps )
Ab crunches

3.
Neck press
D/B Row ( bi-lateral )
Lateral raise
Rev. curl
Tricep ext.

4.
Hack slide
Hyper ext.
seated calves ( 20+ reps)
Leg raise


Train on alternate days ( Mon/wed/fri etc.) rotating between upper/lower and never train to failure , instead train for cumulative fatigue.

T.
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Nwlifter

Turpin wrote:
Gironda advocated x 1 exercise per bodypart for 8 x 8 and an upper / lower split.

I have used this routine ( & still do at times on certain exercises ).
Choose a weight that you can perform 12 reps with and perform sets of 8 reps with only 30 secs respite between sets.

1.
Gironda style dips
Pullup
High pull
Drag curl
Tricep pushdown

2.
Sissy squat
Leg curl
Calf raise ( 20+ reps )
Ab crunches

3.
Neck press
D/B Row ( bi-lateral )
Lateral raise
Rev. curl
Tricep ext.

4.
Hack slide
Hyper ext.
seated calves ( 20+ reps)
Leg raise


Train on alternate days ( Mon/wed/fri etc.) rotating between upper/lower and never train to failure , instead train for cumulative fatigue.

T.


Yes spot on!

And to OP remember, 8x8 was his 'killer short term for advanced people' setup, 6x6 was more the mainstay.
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Bastion

Here's the best fullbody 8x8 I've seen on YouTube. I use both 6x6 10x10 but oddly enough can't ever recall doing 8x8. Even with a severely deteriorated hip joint, I've been able to continue to add size to my legs with 10x10 on the leg press, keeping joint stress to a minimum and making the quads work extremely hard.

https://youtu.be/VV2Fs1AAICU
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hit4me

Florida, USA

thanks for the advice fellas, being a failure fella these past few years, i am looking forward to changing it up and adding more volume with no failure

i know it will be hard to change my mindset of going from failure to not failure, but i am gonna make the effort

two questions: do i increase the weight each week if i meet the 8x8 requirement or do i just stick with the same weight?

what is the tempo like, 4x4, 2x2, 1x1?

thx, dan
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Turpin

hit4me wrote:
thanks for the advice fellas, being a failure fella these past few years, i am looking forward to changing it up and adding more volume with no failure

i know it will be hard to change my mindset of going from failure to not failure, but i am gonna make the effort

two questions: do i increase the weight each week if i meet the 8x8 requirement or do i just stick with the same weight?

what is the tempo like, 4x4, 2x2, 1x1?

thx, dan


You increase the density rather than intensity by decreasing the respite between sets ( 30 secs to 20 secs etc ) whilst keeping the weight the same. And simply concentrate on good form rather than counting cadence.

T.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Turpin wrote:
And simply concentrate on good form rather than counting cadence.

T.


It's amazing when you tell a HITer to move smooth and steady... with a nice even flow... and then what happens is a pushing to failure, body contorting or excessively flexing. Movement starts fluidly and even, but eventually slowing as they try to grind out that extra rep or two (although they know there are more sets to do). Once you 'train' them with congestion type training... building on the fatigue accumulation... that they finally get it. I think this is the biggest hurdle to get over for a HITer. Nothing wrong with training HIT, but the methodology does not extend to Gironda style training... just like bodybuilding does not coincide with Olympic lifting.
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hit4me

Florida, USA

Turpin wrote:
hit4me wrote:
thanks for the advice fellas, being a failure fella these past few years, i am looking forward to changing it up and adding more volume with no failure

i know it will be hard to change my mindset of going from failure to not failure, but i am gonna make the effort

two questions: do i increase the weight each week if i meet the 8x8 requirement or do i just stick with the same weight?

what is the tempo like, 4x4, 2x2, 1x1?

thx, dan

You increase the density rather than intensity by decreasing the respite between sets ( 30 secs to 20 secs etc ) whilst keeping the weight the same. And simply concentrate on good form rather than counting cadence.

T.


thank you sir

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hit4me

Florida, USA

Brian Johnston wrote:
Turpin wrote:
And simply concentrate on good form rather than counting cadence.

T.

It's amazing when you tell a HITer to move smooth and steady... with a nice even flow... and then what happens is a pushing to failure, body contorting or excessively flexing. Movement starts fluidly and even, but eventually slowing as they try to grind out that extra rep or two (although they know there are more sets to do). Once you 'train' them with congestion type training... building on the fatigue accumulation... that they finally get it. I think this is the biggest hurdle to get over for a HITer. Nothing wrong with training HIT, but the methodology does not extend to Gironda style training... just like bodybuilding does not coincide with Olympic lifting.



Brian, i could not agree more as a follower of HIT for the past couple of years, i have fallen into the worrying too much about the cadense and the chasing the numbers on paper that sometimes i lost sight of performing the rep in a fluid manner.

When i used to train arnold style or even yates or mentzer style i never concerned myself with cadense and i always performed the reps fluidly.

it wasn't until i started watching some you-tube videos of some of the HIT teaching experts that i started concerning myself with how slow i should perform the rep.

so, thanks for pointing this out and also for the advice of one exercise per training session at 8x8 and the others at 1 or 2 sets and build up from there.

thx, dan
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Bastion

Brian Johnston wrote:




It's amazing when you tell a HITer to move smooth and steady... with a nice even flow... and then what happens is a pushing to failure, body contorting or excessively flexing. Movement starts fluidly and even, but eventually slowing as they try to grind out that extra rep or two (although they know there are more sets to do). Once you 'train' them with congestion type training... building on the fatigue accumulation... that they finally get it. I think this is the biggest hurdle to get over for a HITer. Nothing wrong with training HIT, but the methodology does not extend to Gironda style training... just like bodybuilding does not coincide with Olympic lifting.


Reminds me of the first few times I did 6x6. I'd be reaching failure by the 3rd set and would continue on doing each set like that because my ego wouldn't allow me to reduce the weight. It didn't take long til I learned that fatigue is the goal, not failure. At least until the final set if at all. I'd have to say that for anyone who has trained HIT for any length of time, the biggest hurdle is learning to hold back especially on the first set or two and not letting the amount of weight on the stack or bar be your #1 concern.

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Nwlifter

Yes, it's putting things in the right order too. Many times, with HIT, we look to 'add weight to try and cause an adaptation', when things should be the opposite, 'the adaptations should require a load increase the next time'.
We stimulate
We hopefully adapt
THEN that requires more load
Not the other way around.

With CFT, the 'work' takes care of the stimulation. No need for high effort 'forcing' and 'training on the nerve'.
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Bastion

One thing I rarely see mentioned about HIT training and training in general, is how a certain style of training makes the trainee feel. I can only speak for myself, but after years of low volume all out all the time training, I found myself to be really moody and unpleasant to be around. Quick tempered and agitated the days following a workout. With cumulative fatigue training or GVT, congestion training , whatever we choose to call it, I feel energized and uplifted rather than flattened and I'm much more positive and look forward to my training sessions rather than dreading them. Although i at times dreaded those heavy duty workouts, i felt great doing them and trying to beat the score clock. I still throw in a DC style rest pause set here and there, but it's just that, here and there, not basing my entire program on going "balls to the wall".
Anyone else experience anything similar? Or am I the only crazy One? Haha.
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garethit

Bastion wrote:
One thing I rarely see mentioned about HIT training and training in general, is how a certain style of training makes the trainee feel. I can only speak for myself, but after years of low volume all out all the time training, I found myself to be really moody and unpleasant to be around. Quick tempered and moody the days following a workout. With cumulative fatigue training or GVT, congestion training , whatever we choose to call it, I feel energized and uplifted rather than flattened and I'm much more positive and look forward to my training sessions rather than dreading them. I still throw in a few DC style rest pause sets in here and there, but it's just that, here and there, not basing my entire life on going "balls to the wall".
Anyone else experience anything similar? Or am I the only crazy One? Haha.


I actually did a similar style full body workout yesterday and was thinking exactly the same thing afterwards. Everything felt nicely worked, no joint pains and no walking around like the living dead for the rest of the day!

I woke this morning with a nice soreness and fullness through all my muscles, if nothing else it just feels a much healthier and less stressful way to train.
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StuKE

Bastion wrote:
One thing I rarely see mentioned about HIT training and training in general, is how a certain style of training makes the trainee feel. I can only speak for myself, but after years of low volume all out all the time training, I found myself to be really moody and unpleasant to be around. Quick tempered and moody the days following a workout. With cumulative fatigue training or GVT, congestion training , whatever we choose to call it, I feel energized and uplifted rather than flattened and I'm much more positive and look forward to my training sessions rather than dreading them. I still throw in a few DC style rest pause sets in here and there, but it's just that, here and there, not basing my entire life on going "balls to the wall".
Anyone else experience anything similar? Or am I the only crazy One? Haha.


I'm not sure if I was moody (any more than usual!) afterwards, you'd have to ask my wife... But I would feel physically off, almost ill the following day, really crappy and drained. Sort of like a bad cold without the runny nose etc. I used to take it as a,sort of badge of honour, that I had works really hard and paid my dues, but as I got older, I increasingly found myself thinking, sod that! It is not even like I was guaranteed any localised soreness, in fact I might not have any.
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Crotalus

Bastion wrote:
One thing I rarely see mentioned about HIT training and training in general, is how a certain style of training makes the trainee feel.

With cumulative fatigue training or GVT, congestion training , whatever we choose to call it, I feel energized and uplifted rather than flattenened


I felt totally drained like I ran into a wall when I was training full body HIT during my final years training that way. I didn't totally get away from HIT, just that concept that it had to be full body workout.

Now that I use a split routine, I can still keep the training intense and brief the way I like it. I feel beat right after the workouts but after a short nap and something to eat I'm fine for the rest of the day and looking forward to my next session.
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hit4me

Florida, USA

Bastion wrote:
One thing I rarely see mentioned about HIT training and training in general, is how a certain style of training makes the trainee feel. I can only speak for myself, but after years of low volume all out all the time training, I found myself to be really moody and unpleasant to be around. Quick tempered and moody the days following a workout. With cumulative fatigue training or GVT, congestion training , whatever we choose to call it, I feel energized and uplifted rather than flattened and I'm much more positive and look forward to my training sessions rather than dreading them. I still throw in a few DC style rest pause sets in here and there, but it's just that, here and there, not basing my entire life on going "balls to the wall".
Anyone else experience anything similar? Or am I the only crazy One? Haha.


never experienced any mood changes no matter what style i used

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Crotalus

hit4me ;

Have you tried the 8x8 yet ? Curious about how you did with it starting off.

Also wondering why you decided to try it ? I know from past posts you are a dedicated HIT guy.

I gave it a try on leg presses the other day. I was a little off with my weight selection and could have went a bit heavier but made it work with adjusting the rest between sets as I went. .

The weight felt so light the first couple sets I only rested 15 seconds before starting the next. . As it progressed and I got tired I would increase the rest by five seconds to get all the reps with the last two sets using 30 seconds between sets.

Didn't take as long as I thought it would and think Brian's suggestion of picking one movement in your workout to do this way is a good idea ... at least to begin with.
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hit4me

Florida, USA

Crotalus wrote:
hit4me ;

Have you tried the 8x8 yet ? Curious about how you did with it starting off.

Also wondering why you decided to try it ? I know from past posts you are a dedicated HIT guy.

I gave it a try on leg presses the other day. I was a little off with my weight selection and could have went a bit heavier but made it work with adjusting the rest between sets as I went. .

The weight felt so light the first couple sets I only rested 15 seconds before starting the next. . As it progressed and I got tired I would increase the rest by five seconds to get all the reps with the last two sets using 30 seconds between sets.

Didn't take as long as I thought it would and think Brian's suggestion of picking one movement in your workout to do this way is a good idea ... at least to begin with.


have not started yet, gonna take a weeks vacation from work and go on a golfing trip for a couple days, so i will take a week off from training at the same time. i am a dedicated HIT guy because of the efficiency and i love the feeling of going to failure.

however, i think i have reached a plateau in strength and i just want to try something new for a change, i am no longer seeing any changes in body composition or fat loss (i am really struggling with this one).

i plan on starting when i come home from vacation, i have been doing some research on Gironda's methods and i am leaning towards his upper/lower split ;i.e upper will be 3days/week and lower will be 2days/week and each day will be one exercise per bodypart and each time the exercise will be different, i am sure it will be difficult at first and i may be jumping in the deep end at the beginning instead of gradually working my towards the deep end if you know what i mean...so i may start light to get used to it and slowly work up the weight, but my main focus will be form and fatigue not failure.

thx for asking



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StuKE

I like to lift heavy, but the body does not like it so much a lot of the time. A Gironda style routine is great, but I found 8 sets to be mind numbing, for me adapting to maybe 4 sets, 15-20 seconds rest in between sets allows for a little more weight without pounding the joints, plus if you want you can then do another exercise for 4 sets.

It's still cumulative fatigue training, still fast paced but allows more weight, more interesting and can hit muscles,from different angles. Not as pure though, but I enjoyed it when I used to train like this after decades of heavy.
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Nwlifter

StuKE wrote:
I like to lift heavy, but the body does not like it so much a lot of the time. A Gironda style routine is great, but I found 8 sets to be mind numbing, for me adapting to maybe 4 sets, 15-20 seconds rest in between sets allows for a little more weight without pounding the joints, plus if you want you can then do another exercise for 4 sets.

It's still cumulative fatigue training, still fast paced but allows more weight, more interesting and can hit muscles,from different angles. Not as pure though, but I enjoyed it when I used to train like this after decades of heavy.


Same here, I've tried 8x8 and even 10x10, my favorite way is one or two exercises with 3x8 and 30 seconds rest.
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