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Determine the Length of Your Workouts

Evaluate Your Progress

Keep Warm-Up in Perspective


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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

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'Warm Up Sets'...What Does This Mean?
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Equity

Recently I've been experimenting with higher volume which necessitates lighter weights.

Using Vince Gironda's 8x8 as an apex, I have only got to 5x8 or there abouts. If I used a lighter weight then maybe I'd get the 8x8.

When doing 5x8 (40 reps) with 15-45 sec rest in between (later sets get more rest) I use the same weight from start to finish. And have got good results.

No ramping, no 'warm up' weights. Is there really such a thing as a warm up and if so (as per HIT advocates)are they a bad thing?

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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Of course you're doing a warm-up. If you can do that many sets with a given weight, then obviously the first set or two is not very hard... a level 5-6 out of 10, right? That is the effort level of a warm-up. A warm-up prepares both mind and body for more intense work... it actually increases the intensity of the contraction as well.
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StuKE

Equity wrote:
Recently I've been experimenting with higher volume which necessitates lighter weights.

Using Vince Gironda's 8x8 as an apex, I have only got to 5x8 or there abouts. If I used a lighter weight then maybe I'd get the 8x8.

When doing 5x8 (40 reps) with 15-45 sec rest in between (later sets get more rest) I use the same weight from start to finish. And have got good results.

No ramping, no 'warm up' weights. Is there really such a thing as a warm up and if so (as per HIT advocates)are they a bad thing?



If you are talking about specifically with an 8x8 routine I don't know, but I do question how much they are needed. For me, I have never really warmed up in order to get the blood pumping and so on, all I have ever done is start light and pyramid the sets in order to feel the weight and prepare,but always well within my ability and never something that taxes me.

Part of me thinks we should be able to lift our best right off the bat, after all real life situations do not allow for warm ups...

But then, I would never dream of doing a max weight set of squats without using a few sets to get the feel for heavier weights first.

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Equity

Brian Johnston wrote:
Of course you're doing a warm-up. If you can do that many sets with a given weight, then obviously the first set or two is not very hard... a level 5-6 out of 10, right? That is the effort level of a warm-up. A warm-up prepares both mind and body for more intense work... it actually increases the intensity of the contraction as well.


I'm probably overthinking this and chasing my own tail.

Coming from a HIT mind-set/background, then trying more volume not to failure, I can step back objectively and see how I came to ask this question.

You're right I'm overconplicating things... Again! Lol!!!

Thanks.
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Dresden

I've never used 8x8, but for me a warm up is about ensuring good form and preventing injury when I do my main sets.
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Equity

Dresden wrote:
I've never used 8x8, but for me a warm up is about ensuring good form and preventing injury when I do my main sets.


Like many HIT advocates state (Dr. Darden is a good example) any rep that is sub-maximal and then another and another making an inroad is a warm-up. A set of ten reps to failure the first nine are a warm-up for the tenth and last.

Because I started weight training in HIT style and perform an exercise TF without lighter warm-up sets it's kind of a weird concept holding back on the initial sets of 5 X 8 for example.
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hit4me

Florida, USA

performing Girondas 8x8, the first few sets are a warm-up
even doing 5x8, the first two sets would be a warm-up
even Mentzer said in one of his training videos that warm-ups are necessary, but not to go overboard on the warm-ups
when i train full body HIT, i use pre-exhaust which can be considered a type of warm-up....however, i found that when i get to real heavy weight then i need to warm up with a couple lighter sets for the joints
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Equity

hit4me wrote:
performing Girondas 8x8, the first few sets are a warm-up
even doing 5x8, the first two sets would be a warm-up
even Mentzer said in one of his training videos that warm-ups are necessary, but not to go overboard on the warm-ups
when i train full body HIT, i use pre-exhaust which can be considered a type of warm-up....however, i found that when i get to real heavy weight then i need to warm up with a couple lighter sets for the joints


Although certain writer's have commented on this I genuinely believe for most people several (not one) sets are better. I'm not saying don't go to failure as when you do the fast-twitch fibers come into play and stimulated to grow.
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Resultsbased


"Like many HIT advocates state (Dr. Darden is a good example) any rep that is sub-maximal and then another and another making an inroad is a warm-up. A set of ten reps to failure the first nine are a warm-up for the tenth and last."

And it is this very reasoning that shows just one of the flaws in HIT in its traditional interpretation.

Example:

Can you imagine someone squatting 405x10 and considering the first 9 reps as "warm up" and all that are necessary? This will NEVER happen.


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hit4me

Florida, USA

Resultsbased wrote:

"Like many HIT advocates state (Dr. Darden is a good example) any rep that is sub-maximal and then another and another making an inroad is a warm-up. A set of ten reps to failure the first nine are a warm-up for the tenth and last."

And it is this very reasoning that shows just one of the flaws in HIT in its traditional interpretation.

Example:

Can you imagine someone squatting 405x10 and considering the first 9 reps as "warm up" and all that are necessary? This will NEVER happen.




it did happen, during the Colorado experiment
also, Dr. Darden still indicates his trainees do not warm-up

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Resultsbased

The Colorado Study...RIGHT, you mean the one where he wasn't using any sort of drugs?

Can you or anyone else on here please site proof or examples of people squatting 405x10 or more without warmups?

How sustainable would such an approach be?
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Resultsbased

The Colorado Study...RIGHT, you mean the one where he wasn't using any sort of drugs?

Can you or anyone else on here please site proof or examples of people squatting 405x10 or more without warmups?

How sustainable would such an approach be?
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hit4me

Florida, USA

Resultsbased wrote:
The Colorado Study...RIGHT, you mean the one where he wasn't using any sort of drugs?

Can you or anyone else on here please site proof or examples of people squatting 405x10 or more without warmups?

How sustainable would such an approach be?


what does drugs have to do with warm-ups?....
i am just repeating what the study, jones and darden have spoke about, have no idea if its true and accurate

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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

There's a reason why HITers like machines (many reasons, but one is that there is less need for a warm-up...but regardless, ANYONE who performs a set cold vs. doing a modest warm-up with 50-60% of the given load plus the work set would have to admit more powerful and intense contractions in the latter instance).
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Turpin

As I have got older ( now 52yrs ) warm ups are imperative before lifting. I do some mobility work , foam rolling AND light feeler sets before my workout proper.
In regards to the 8 x 8 , Vince never did recommend warm ups as he felt the initial sets increased the viscosity of the muscle. Personally , I don't live in California and a warm up will always play a part in my training.

T.
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hit4me

Florida, USA

Brian Johnston wrote:
There's a reason why HITers like machines (many reasons, but one is that there is less need for a warm-up...but regardless, ANYONE who performs a set cold vs. doing a modest warm-up with 50-60% of the given load plus the work set would have to admit more powerful and intense contractions in the latter instance).


i admit that, and the reason why i now perform warm-ups in lieu of going cold...even with machines
i can't do the full stack on the leg press cold, like i can with a couple warm-ups

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Equity

Turpin wrote:
As I have got older ( now 52yrs ) warm ups are imperative before lifting. I do some mobility work , foam rolling AND light feeler sets before my workout proper.
In regards to the 8 x 8 , Vince never did recommend warm ups as he felt the initial sets increased the viscosity of the muscle. Personally , I don't live in California and a warm up will always play a part in my training.

T.


I thought you worked out at Gold's and then lounged on the beach afterwards. I feel deceived!!! Lol!


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Resultsbased

I'll put it this way:

I train HIT because I prefer to train in that manner. I also recognize its limitations. By definition, you LIMIT yourself to one set...right?

Arthur Jones actually recommended 2-3 sets early on or about the time of the infamous Colorado Study. I have often questioned many aspects of this study. I'm not suggesting Dr. Darden or AJ misrepresented things, but Mentzer stated emphatically that Viator was using steroids at that time.

It seems amusing that people point to the Mentzers or Viator regarding single set training, yet they didn't train themselves that way.
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hit4me

Florida, USA

Resultsbased wrote:
I'll put it this way:

I train HIT because I prefer to train in that manner. I also recognize its limitations. By definition, you LIMIT yourself to one set...right?

Arthur Jones actually recommended 2-3 sets early on or about the time of the infamous Colorado Study. I have often questioned many aspects of this study. I'm not suggesting Dr. Darden or AJ misrepresented things, but Mentzer stated emphatically that Viator was using steroids at that time.

It seems amusing that people point to the Mentzers or Viator regarding single set training, yet they didn't train themselves that way.


According to the Colorado study and i am taking it at face value...i do not recall any warm-up sets being mentioned, both viator and jones performed the exercises with no warm-ups and of course viator used enormous weights (with or without drugs)
...why does steroids matter when it comes to warm-ups???

and where does Mentzer say Viator used steroids during the Colorado study? not saying he didn't, but i would like to know your source

i train HIT because i enjoy it...and i do not limit myself to one set as i perform warm-ups
but, right now i am training Girondas 8x8 and i am enjoying that too but i will return to hit in about a month



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Resultsbased

1) Fair point about steroids and warm ups. However, to me, if this aspect was inaccurate (and it was) the whole thing unravels a bit...what else was off?

2) From several sources and Mike even wrote about it in HDII, chapter 6, here is the link directly from his website.

https://www.mikementzer.com/hd...
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Resultsbased

1) Fair point about steroids and warm ups. However, to me, if this aspect was inaccurate (and it was) the whole thing unravels a bit...what else was off?

2) From several sources and Mike even wrote about it in HDII, chapter 6, here is the link directly from his website.

https://www.mikementzer.com/hd...
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hit4me

Florida, USA

Resultsbased wrote:
1) Fair point about steroids and warm ups. However, to me, if this aspect was inaccurate (and it was) the whole thing unravels a bit...what else was off?

2) From several sources and Mike even wrote about it in HDII, chapter 6, here is the link directly from his website.

https://www.mikementzer.com/...p6.html


Thank you Sir, i have that book...guess i will have to re-read it as i have not read it for quite a few years now

i agree if something does not seem right...then what else is not right

thats what happens when we are not eye witnesses

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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Arthur Jones actually recommended 2-3 sets early on or about the time of the infamous Colorado Study. I have often questioned many aspects of this study. I'm not suggesting Dr. Darden or AJ misrepresented things, but Mentzer stated emphatically that Viator was using steroids at that time.

==Scott==
Oh heavens to murgatroid don't question things!! Rule number 1, don't put much stock into what any pro bodybuilder says.
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Resultsbased

Yes, don't take the advice of any well-developed
bodybuilders or athletes.

Instead, look to people wearing neck ties and whose arms are 13 inches!
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Resultsbased wrote:
Yes, don't take the advice of any well-developed
bodybuilders or athletes.

Instead, look to people wearing neck ties and whose arms are 13 inches!


==Scott==
I said pro bodybuilders not well developed folks. Over 90% pros are on every drug out there. What they do doesn't translate to anything useful for the average joe not on the stuff but yea, eat your Wheaties, the breakfast of champions and go ahead and try to do what Ronnie Coleman did but drug free, you can replicate that with no problem, just don't outroad to much, ha ha.
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