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Jones and Butkus' Knee
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Equity

The 'Long Con'. How Arthur Jones and Dick Butkus defrauded the Chicago Bears.

My opinion is that Jones, as quoted in the article, was right to collude with Butkus on getting his contract renewed.

I'd heard of this saga before and wondered why Jones as principled as he was would do this. After reading the article and hearing what the Bears' doctors did to Butkus (injected his knee repeatedly with pain killers), I agree the collusion was justified.

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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Equity wrote:
The 'Long Con'. How Arthur Jones and Dick Butkus defrauded the Chicago Bears.

My opinion is that Jones, as quoted in the article, was right to collude with Butkus on getting his contract renewed.

I'd heard of this saga before and wondered why Jones as principled as he was would do this. After reading the article and hearing what the Bears' doctors did to Butkus (injected his knee repeatedly with pain killers), I agree the collusion was justified.



===Scott==
I guess part of the question here is if Butkus asked to have the pain killers injected so he could keep playing or if the team insisted he play knowing how bad his knee was? I suspect it was a little of both? A lot of players ignor the dangers of playing injured in hopes of more glory or whatever. You eventually pay the price for playing injured. As for cheating football management?? Who cares. They cheat the players to death either way so I?d take them for what I could !
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

==Scott===
Just wondering if Butkus eventually got a knee replacement like they can do nowadays?
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Equity

entsminger wrote:
==Scott===
Just wondering if Butkus eventually got a knee replacement like they can do nowadays?


I tried linking the written Google article but no luck.

I watched the following documentary though first and then looked the article up. Both Butkus and Gale Sayers got ruined knees. In the documentary Sayers gets upset and says he wishes the doctors back then we're as good as they are now.

https://youtu.be/qXpViSdE2Fk
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Equity

Google: Arthur Jones, Dick Butkus and the Long Con

And the written article will come up.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

==Scott==
I read the article but it was a long time ago. Now days they can do miracles with knees but most of them aren?t returning to the football lineup. When I actually cared about football Butkus was my favorite football player. Mr. Reckless abandone but he paid the price. Joe Namath was the same. Keep playing until you can hardly walk and then hobble around the rest of their lives . In those days they just taped you up and sent you back in.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

=== Scott===
Football, bodybuilders etc, the promoters, coaches , owners push the football players until they become broken down and handicapped and the bodybuilder promoters push the bodybuilders until they self destruct from drug use thus the athletes want big bucks when they can play knowing they have a limited sports lifetime . Some walk away with big bucks but many walk away broken and broke. The owners on the other hand always walk away loaded!!
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Jesse Lee Otis

entsminger -- You are so right about the professional football players being 'used up and spit out' by the big shots. I certainly think that the same can be said about professional weightlifters (especially the heavyweight/superheavyweight guys). I can only imagine what stress they put on their musculoskeletal system during their training & contests - and they most probably feel the effects of it for the rest of their life. On another, somewhat related note, professional mathematicians do not have that particular problem; however, they may go bonkers from proving myriad theorems (the pure math people) or trying to fit mathematics to the 'real world' (the applied math people). Methinks that physicists are close behind.

Jesse Lee
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Equity

Scott,

I agree with you on both points.

Teams treat the players like meat on a conveyer belt. Get injured and you'll immediately be replaced with no going back. But with modern day high paying sports at least the athletes make a lot of dough, albeit their careers are short.

In football it's probably best to be a quarterback or kicker for longevity.

Regards!
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hit4me

Florida, USA

entsminger wrote:
=== Scott===
Football, bodybuilders etc, the promoters, coaches , owners push the football players until they become broken down and handicapped and the bodybuilder promoters push the bodybuilders until they self destruct from drug use thus the athletes want big bucks when they can play knowing they have a limited sports lifetime . Some walk away with big bucks but many walk away broken and broke. The owners on the other hand always walk away loaded!!


Not to be cold.....but, we all have choices in the life we chose

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entsminger

Virginia, USA

hit4me wrote:
entsminger wrote:
=== Scott===
Football, bodybuilders etc, the promoters, coaches , owners push the football players until they become broken down and handicapped and the bodybuilder promoters push the bodybuilders until they self destruct from drug use thus the athletes want big bucks when they can play knowing they have a limited sports lifetime . Some walk away with big bucks but many walk away broken and broke. The owners on the other hand always walk away loaded!!

Not to be cold.....but, we all have choices in the life we chose



==Scott==
Yes we do make choices and sometimes they're not the best choices. My son is a high school teacher who has alot of sports kids in his classes. Just like the pro's who insist on being put back in even though their leg is hanging by a thread these kids want to be put back in after a concussion. At least three of his students have suffered at least 5 or 6 concussions. It's quite obvious in how they act that these boys have suffered brain damage that may adversely effect them the rest of their life but they'd keep playing if allowed to. That lure of the game throws all sense out the window.

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Crotalus

hit4me wrote:

Not to be cold.....but, we all have choices in the life we chose



You aren't being cold ... you're exactly right, Nobody is forcing these guys choose pro sports as a career and the ones who do know the risks and paid very well for it.
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Equity

entsminger wrote:
hit4me wrote:
entsminger wrote:
=== Scott===
Football, bodybuilders etc, the promoters, coaches , owners push the football players until they become broken down and handicapped and the bodybuilder promoters push the bodybuilders until they self destruct from drug use thus the athletes want big bucks when they can play knowing they have a limited sports lifetime . Some walk away with big bucks but many walk away broken and broke. The owners on the other hand always walk away loaded!!

Not to be cold.....but, we all have choices in the life we chose



==Scott==
Yes we do make choices and sometimes they're not the best choices. My son is a high school teacher who has alot of sports kids in his classes. Just like the pro's who insist on being put back in even though their leg is hanging by a thread these kids want to be put back in after a concussion. At least three of his students have suffered at least 5 or 6 concussions. It's quite obvious in how they act that these boys have suffered brain damage that may adversely effect them the rest of their life but they'd keep playing if allowed to. That lure of the game throws all sense out the window.



I don't think school kids should be allowed to play as they are stupid enough to think it worth it. The same with dad's encouraging their 8 year olds to box amateur.

Let them hit 18yrs or whatever so they can have a more informed choice.
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Equity

Jesse Lee Otis wrote:
entsminger -- You are so right about the professional football players being 'used up and spit out' by the big shots. I certainly think that the same can be said about professional weightlifters (especially the heavyweight/superheavyweight guys). I can only imagine what stress they put on their musculoskeletal system during their training & contests - and they most probably feel the effects of it for the rest of their life. On another, somewhat related note, professional mathematicians do not have that particular problem; however, they may go bonkers from proving myriad theorems (the pure math people) or trying to fit mathematics to the 'real world' (the applied math people). Methinks that physicists are close behind.

Jesse Lee


Yeah CTE! Via algebra!

No seriously, yes there is something to what you say. Mental health issues could ensue. Makes me think of Bobby Fisher, not saying he was forced to play chess, I don't know, but I don't think it helped his mental state. Ayn Rand wrote an essay on this topic on why she doesn't like chess.

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Jesse Lee Otis

entsminger -- I know that this is off-thread, but you hit a chord when you mentioned that your son is a high school teacher. I hope that he has better experiences doing that than I did when I tried to teach at that level. It was a disaster; many of the students were considerably rude and disrespectful, having no intention of studying and trying to learn (I taught physics & mathematics - and most people don't pick that stuff up from just listening in class (or pretending to listen) or goofing off). My hat is off to your son for doing that kind of work; it takes special people. A private school with rigid entry requirements makes for more disciplined students than most run-of-the-mill public schools.

I would enjoy reading about your son's experiences in teaching. Maybe email me at jesseleeotis@gmail.com if you have time.

Jesse Lee
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

==Scott==
I was looking up Butkus and saw this picture that could possibly be his legs?? If it is of his legs I find it interesting the lack of muscle displayed in this shot?
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Equity

entsminger wrote:
==Scott==
I was looking up Butkus and saw this picture that could possibly be his legs?? If it is of his legs I find it interesting the lack of muscle displayed in this shot?


Yes they're Butkus', I seen this picture just recently. Maybe taken when he wasn't playing and they atrophied. A sad sight; the angle of the knee and so forth. Hopefully after Jones got hold of him they improved in appearance as well as function.
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hit4me

Florida, USA

are you sure the six million dollar man didn't break dick butkus's legs in the episode "one of our running backs is missing", lol
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Equity

hit4me wrote:
are you sure the six million dollar man didn't break dick butkus's legs in the episode "one of our running backs is missing", lol


Myself and a team of forensics will examine the episode and see if there's any culpability.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

==Scott==
This Butkus knee thing reminds me just how fragile we are. For most of my life I did many sports and hardly ever sustained an injury. My legs have always been exceptionally strong but when I was about 40 something while video taping a golf training session I got smacked in the knee with an errant golf ball.After that the knee would hurt when I ran and I'd run marathons before with no problem.The injured knee forced my running style to change slightly and the result was tearing a meniscus in the other knee on a simple short jog around the block. Now I hobble around like a 80 year old man and I didn't have five 280 pound lineman falling on and breaking my leg over and over again like Butkus must have experienced. I can't imagine what Butkus had to go through.
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Ellington Darden

Here's an interesting story about Dick Butkus and his son, Matt.

Approximately 30 years ago, Dick brought Matt by to meet Arthur Jones and have Matt evaluated on the MedX Leg Extension testing machine. This machine tested strength statically in seven different positions, from the start to the extended position. Then, the computerized machine connected the seven positions and drew a strength-curve line across the print out. At the bottom was a number that summed all the positions and gave you a total. That number could typically be called your leg extension strength score.

Okay, so Matt -- who was 19 years old and stood 6'2" tall and weighed 250 pounds -- went through the testing, with Jones shouting words in his ear to give each test his best effort. Matt was on scholarship and played football for Southern California and he took the test with great seriousness.

At the end of the testing, Jones took the print out and looked at it. He complimented the kid and noted that he did a good job. He also explained that there were a couple of areas that he could definitely improve.

After Dick and his son departed, Arthur pulled up Dick's most recent test on the same machine. Look back on those knees of his in the photo previously shown. You'll see much atrophy in Dick's right quadriceps and his left quad is only somewhat better. And both of his knees are shot.

Dick Butkus' total score, however, was better than his son's. I examined both sets of data and the results were nothing short of amazing. Arthur noted that Dick's natural muscular strength was one of the reasons he was such a great athlete. Matt had some of his dad's genes, but he did not have his dad's extra-ordinary muscles. And Matt did not play football like his dad.

Ellington
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

==Scott===
Great story Dr. Darden!!!! This is the stuff that keeps me coming to this site!!!
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g0ld3nuncw

North Carolina, USA

Thanks Dr., more stories like this are welcome and what make this site different.
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AndyMitch

Great story
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backtrack

Some people are much stronger than what their muscles show.

I think this is much preferable - many guys have the muscles, but not the strength to go with it.
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