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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
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of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

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Dr. Darden: Static Contractions
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Average Al

ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
entsminger wrote:

==Scott==
Is there still a Super Slow camp lead by Ken Hutchins or Josh? For a while arguing about it was the rage on here but now I hardly see it mentioned?

Yes, and it is headed up on Corporate Warrior.
Biased, segregated, eccentric views on resistance exercise where alternative, scientific, and empirical views are mocked by their eccentric parishioners.


Corporate Warrior (now called High Intensity Business) really isn't devoted to promoting super slow training per se. As long as it involves relatively low volume training to failure, you are in the club. Don't think cardio is necessary? That's OK! Think some cardio is necessary? They may not agree, but they won't excommunicate you (unless you become a pain in the butt about it). Not strict about using a 10-10 cadence? That's OK too. No need to wear a white shirt and tie. You don't have to keep the room at 60F, though if you want to do that, the clients will probably like it. Want to do group training, as well as one-on-one? That is also fine. Main things to focus on: improve the health of the clients and make money for yourself.

Via his podcast and social media, he has extended invitations to Joshua to appear on the podcast. At one point, I think Laurence may have hoped to heal what he saw was an unnecessary rift in the community. I doubt it will ever happen, because Trentine seems to have no interest in that.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
entsminger wrote:
Should I believe Hutchins? Why?


Good ?


Seems everyone in the SuperSlow camp believe him as gospel.

==Scott==
Is there still a Super Slow camp lead by Ken Hutchins or Josh? For a while arguing about it was the rage on here but now I hardly see it mentioned?

Yes, and it is headed up on Corporate Warrior.
Biased, segregated, eccentric views on resistance exercise where alternative, scientific, and empirical views are mocked by their eccentric parishioners.


==Scott==
Corporate Warrior? Somehow these two words don't seem to coincide? That's like pencil neck Viking, ha ha.
I think their down fall was the notion that any other way of exercising was wrong if it wasn't REN-X and if you didn't agree with them you were an idiot. I see it as just one of many ways to work the muscles.Not the best way but not the worst depending on your goals.
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Average Al

entsminger wrote:

==Scott==
Corporate Warrior? Somehow these two words don't seem to coincide? That's like pencil neck Viking, ha ha.
I think their down fall was the notion that any other way of exercising was wrong if it wasn't REN-X and if you didn't agree with them you were an idiot. I see it as just one of many ways to work the muscles.Not the best way but not the worst depending on your goals.


I think his original name was 15 minute corporate warrior. I suppose he was going after the "time efficient exercise for busy executives" vibe, or something like that.

I'm sure you have heard the phrase "road warrior". That may not make much sense either, since it is mostly traveling salesmen, consultants, and corporate service people who call themselves that.


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ATP 4 Vitality

entsminger wrote:
ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
entsminger wrote:
Should I believe Hutchins? Why?


Good ?


Seems everyone in the SuperSlow camp believe him as gospel.

==Scott==
Is there still a Super Slow camp lead by Ken Hutchins or Josh? For a while arguing about it was the rage on here but now I hardly see it mentioned?

Yes, and it is headed up on Corporate Warrior.
Biased, segregated, eccentric views on resistance exercise where alternative, scientific, and empirical views are mocked by their eccentric parishioners.

==Scott==
Corporate Warrior? Somehow these two words don't seem to coincide? That's like pencil neck Viking, ha ha.
I think their down fall was the notion that any other way of exercising was wrong if it wasn't REN-X and if you didn't agree with them you were an idiot. I see it as just one of many ways to work the muscles.Not the best way but not the worst depending on your goals.



And the most biased of all HiT related sites
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epdavis7

entsminger wrote:

==Scott==
Corporate Warrior? Somehow these two words don't seem to coincide? That's like pencil neck Viking, ha ha.
I think their down fall was the notion that any other way of exercising was wrong if it wasn't REN-X and if you didn't agree with them you were an idiot. I see it as just one of many ways to work the muscles.Not the best way but not the worst depending on your goals.



The statement above is a real broad generalization. Corporate Warrior is not affiliated with any particular HIT modality. If you look at his podcasts he interviews just about everybody in the HIT world not just SuperSlow guys or REN-EX. If you don't believe me, look at his complete list of interviews and you will see there is a broad spectrum of HIT modalities being represented (and yes, some are SuperSlow). If you are opposed to HIT altogether in any form, then yes you will be dissapointed. Some have achieved rather good results. Give it a listen before you jump to judgement.
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epdavis7

He's interviewed Andy Magness who does an extreme version of cardio interval training. This is a guy who does adventure races and ultra marathons on less than two hours a week of training. He has a book out called Ultramental. I think he now trains about 30 minute a week and still does great feats of endurance.

https://www.amazon.com/...k/dp/B00LZWEQ7A

I believe he has also interviewed Aaron Olsen who is another endurance guy who does an extremely low volume of cardio and does endurance events. He has a book called Low Mileage Running.

https://www.amazon.com/...k/dp/B0128IK70Y

In fact my basic conditioning routine for running races is a based off a once a week full body routine done in a metcon fashion and ideas I borrowed from Aaron Olson and Skyler Tanner. Works great for this old Clydesdale. I still age group place even though I don't have an endurance guys build. I run but once a week.

https://smartstrengthaustin.co...

I'm not using strict superslow at the moment, but I am using a 4/4 or 4/2/4 rep cadence for about 40-80 seconds TUL.

Outside of my workouts I'm extremely active and have many physical interests.


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Average Al

epdavis7 wrote:
He's interviewed Andy Magness who does an extreme version of cardio interval training. This is a guy who does adventure races and ultra marathons on less than two hours a week of training. He has a book out called Ultramental. I think he now trains about 30 minute a week and still does great feats of endurance.

... UltraMental-unconventional-approach-training-endurance-ebook/dp/B00LZWEQ7A

I believe he has also interviewed Aaron Olsen who is another endurance guy who does an extremely low volume of cardio and does endurance events. He has a book called Low Mileage Running.

...Low-Mileage-Running-Faster-Injury-Free-ebook/dp/B0128IK70Y

In fact my basic conditioning routine for running races is a based off a once a week full body routine done in a metcon fashion and ideas I borrowed from Aaron Olson and Skyler Tanner. Works great for this old Clydesdale. I still age group place even though I don't have an endurance guys build. I run but once a week.

... smartstrengthaustin.com/smart-strength-race-prep-guide/

I'm not using strict superslow at the moment, but I am using a 4/4 or 4/2/4 rep cadence for about 40-80 seconds TUL.

Outside of my workouts I'm extremely active and have many physical interests.




The idea of low mileage training is interesting, but I have some doubts.

I gave up on running years ago, because of some persistent injuries: chronic Achilles tendinitis, heel spurs, and then some knee issues. I have done strictly low impact stuff since: cross country ski machine, elliptical, stationary bike, and rowing machines.

I find now, that when I do run or sprint, the impact from foot landings feels very jarring to my knees, feet and low back. Aside from being a bit too heavy, I think that the absence of running means my muscles and connective tissue have not been exposed to a sufficient amount eccentric work to feel comfortable with those repetitive impacts.

So my concern for low mileage training isn't that you might lack endurance, so much as that you might be setting yourself up for injury from a high number of unfamiliar impacts. I suppose there must be some minimum volume of running that will eliminate that concern? Does that come up for any discussion in the books you have mentioned?



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epdavis7

Average Al wrote:
epdavis7 wrote:
He's interviewed Andy Magness who does an extreme version of cardio interval training. This is a guy who does adventure races and ultra marathons on less than two hours a week of training. He has a book out called Ultramental. I think he now trains about 30 minute a week and still does great feats of endurance.

... UltraMental-unconventional-approach-training-endurance-ebook/dp/B00LZWEQ7A

I believe he has also interviewed Aaron Olsen who is another endurance guy who does an extremely low volume of cardio and does endurance events. He has a book called Low Mileage Running.

...Low-Mileage-Running-Faster-Injury-Free-ebook/dp/B0128IK70Y

In fact my basic conditioning routine for running races is a based off a once a week full body routine done in a metcon fashion and ideas I borrowed from Aaron Olson and Skyler Tanner. Works great for this old Clydesdale. I still age group place even though I don't have an endurance guys build. I run but once a week.

... smartstrengthaustin.com/smart-strength-race-prep-guide/

I'm not using strict superslow at the moment, but I am using a 4/4 or 4/2/4 rep cadence for about 40-80 seconds TUL.

Outside of my workouts I'm extremely active and have many physical interests.




The idea of low mileage training is interesting, but I have some doubts.

I gave up on running years ago, because of some persistent injuries: chronic Achilles tendinitis, heel spurs, and then some knee issues. I have done strictly low impact stuff since: cross country ski machine, elliptical, stationary bike, and rowing machines.

I find now, that when I do run or sprint, the impact from foot landings feels very jarring to my knees, feet and low back. Aside from being a bit too heavy, I think that the absence of running means my muscles and connective tissue have not been exposed to a sufficient amount eccentric work to feel comfortable with those repetitive impacts.

So my concern for low mileage training isn't that you might lack endurance, so much as that you might be setting yourself up for injury from a high number of unfamiliar impacts. I suppose there must be some minimum volume of running that will eliminate that concern? Does that come up for any discussion in the books you have mentioned?





Absolutely. Andy Magness and Aaron Olson have two different approaches though both are low volume. Andy is more extreme. You do have to run some, but their argument is too much is what breaks down connective tissue vice strengthens it. My biggest change was going to a zero drop shoe and utilizing a mid foot strike vice heel toe. Note zero drop does not mean vibrams. My Altras are quite padded. All I know is I thought years ago I was done running due to knee issues and now I am running injury free at my age and size. I?m not a little guy. Eric Robinson is another ultra runner who runs one really long run only and does quite well. I use a program similar to the one on the last link
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Donnie Hunt

Average Al wrote:
epdavis7 wrote:
He's interviewed Andy Magness who does an extreme version of cardio interval training. This is a guy who does adventure races and ultra marathons on less than two hours a week of training. He has a book out called Ultramental. I think he now trains about 30 minute a week and still does great feats of endurance.

... UltraMental-unconventional-approach-training-endurance-ebook/dp/B00LZWEQ7A

I believe he has also interviewed Aaron Olsen who is another endurance guy who does an extremely low volume of cardio and does endurance events. He has a book called Low Mileage Running.

...Low-Mileage-Running-Faster-Injury-Free-ebook/dp/B0128IK70Y

In fact my basic conditioning routine for running races is a based off a once a week full body routine done in a metcon fashion and ideas I borrowed from Aaron Olson and Skyler Tanner. Works great for this old Clydesdale. I still age group place even though I don't have an endurance guys build. I run but once a week.

... smartstrengthaustin.com/smart-strength-race-prep-guide/

I'm not using strict superslow at the moment, but I am using a 4/4 or 4/2/4 rep cadence for about 40-80 seconds TUL.

Outside of my workouts I'm extremely active and have many physical interests.




The idea of low mileage training is interesting, but I have some doubts.

I gave up on running years ago, because of some persistent injuries: chronic Achilles tendinitis, heel spurs, and then some knee issues. I have done strictly low impact stuff since: cross country ski machine, elliptical, stationary bike, and rowing machines.

I find now, that when I do run or sprint, the impact from foot landings feels very jarring to my knees, feet and low back. Aside from being a bit too heavy, I think that the absence of running means my muscles and connective tissue have not been exposed to a sufficient amount eccentric work to feel comfortable with those repetitive impacts.

So my concern for low mileage training isn't that you might lack endurance, so much as that you might be setting yourself up for injury from a high number of unfamiliar impacts. I suppose there must be some minimum volume of running that will eliminate that concern? Does that come up for any discussion in the books you have mentioned?



[
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epdavis7

There?s a balance there somewhere. My weight training is low impact, high intensity done metcon style. I make sure to include exercises for calves and tibia. My running is obviously not low impact, but I don?t do a lot of it ie once weekly. My go to runs are a 6 mile run on a flat course running with a metronome working on running technique, economy of motion and foot turnover speed. The following week is a 10 mile run on a hillier trail done at a slower pace and honestly is more meditative and enjoyable. This minimal amount of running along with my HIT workout allows me to signup for and run Half Marathons, OCRs and below on a moments notice. I?m very active in general aside from this though. I run slower in the summer and build back up the mileage if I take a layoff:
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epdavis7

Al, a point you made is certainly valid. Awhile back when I started my job I was traveling all over the place in unfamiliar places so I just did the elliptical for an extended period. I was in a suit and it started to rain so I sprinted across the parking lot to my rental car. It felt like my ankles were weak and unstable and it was painful. I also felt uncoordinated and was out of breath in spite of damn near maxing out every cardio machine I got on. It took about 3 months to get back where I was once my job settled down. The cardio conditioning was there, but the specificity and strengthening of connective tissue was not. It?s the same with self defense training. I can lift, do tons of grip exercises etc, but if I don?t strike something on a regular basis (without gloves), it?s like I have sissy hands lol. Too much though and you can harm your health. What good is it if you can break bricks if you can?t hold a spoon or shoot a gun.
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ATP 4 Vitality

Average Al wrote:

The idea of low mileage training is interesting, but I have some doubts.

I gave up on running years ago, because of some persistent injuries: chronic Achilles tendinitis, heel spurs, and then some knee issues. I have done strictly low impact stuff since: cross country ski machine, elliptical, stationary bike, and rowing machines.

I find now, that when I do run or sprint, the impact from foot landings feels very jarring to my knees, feet and low back. Aside from being a bit too heavy, I think that the absence of running means my muscles and connective tissue have not been exposed to a sufficient amount eccentric work to feel comfortable with those repetitive impacts.

So my concern for low mileage training isn't that you might lack endurance, so much as that you might be setting yourself up for injury from a high number of unfamiliar impacts. I suppose there must be some minimum volume of running that will eliminate that concern? Does that come up for any discussion in the books you have mentioned?



Good post AA!

The muscle fascia has lots of nerves and blood vessels, and wraps muscle tissue. The tendons have receptors. Eccentric muscle activity is inherently stronger for self preservation. Joints lubricate activity better above certain speeds, and certainly not at SuperSlow speeds. running is the gold standard of CV conditioning. Just as bones remodel due to imposed stress, Wolffs law, tendons, cartilage and fascia all remodel due to imposed stress.
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Average Al

epdavis7 wrote:
Al, a point you made is certainly valid. Awhile back when I started my job I was traveling all over the place in unfamiliar places so I just did the elliptical for an extended period. I was in a suit and it started to rain so I sprinted across the parking lot to my rental car. It felt like my ankles were weak and unstable and it was painful. I also felt uncoordinated and was out of breath in spite of damn near maxing out every cardio machine I got on. It took about 3 months to get back where I was once my job settled down. The cardio conditioning was there, but the specificity and strengthening of connective tissue was not....


That story pretty well captures what I feel these days when I do have a reason to break into a run.

And to be clear, my concern on the injury side isn't about injuries from the occasional low mileage run. It is what happens when you try to run a marathon after only being exposed to low mileage runs.

Decades ago, when in grad school, a friend of mine decided he would celebrate his birthday by running his age in kilometers. Since my birthday was the same week as his, I thought why not. So I went out with him for a 29K run, or about 18 miles. Prior to that, I had been mostly doing 4 to 6 mile runs, but I had done a couple of 8 to 10 mile efforts on a weekend.

I felt OK through the 10 mile point, but the last few miles started to feel tough. When I finally finished, my legs started to stiffen up and get sore almost immediately. The next several days, I was unbelievably sore. It killed my interest in ever trying to run a marathon.
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epdavis7

Al, if you absolutely can?t run anymore I would recommend walking on an incline or hill program on a treadmill and outdoors when possible. The problem with steppers, ellipticals etc is they do little to strengthen connective tissue. If you use a treadmill don?t do like most people and raise the incline too high and hold on with their hands. Walking (and running) are natural means of human locomotion.
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Average Al

epdavis7 wrote:
Al, if you absolutely can?t run anymore I would recommend walking on an incline or hill program on a treadmill and outdoors when possible. The problem with steppers, ellipticals etc is they do little to strengthen connective tissue. If you use a treadmill don?t do like most people and raise the incline too high and hold on with their hands. Walking (and running) are natural means of human locomotion.



I don't have any issues with walking. I'm on my feet a lot during the day.

Part of the reason I use the elliptical machine is that it is a weight bearing exercise, in contrast to the stationary bike and rowing machine, which I use for interval work. Plus I squat and deadlift regularly with more than bodyweight on the bar, which ought to do something for my connective tissue.

I can't say that I feel much difference between walking and an elliptical machine in terms of impact to the joints. As far a doing inclined walking: I'm not sure why that would be better than a stepper (or a prowler) In each case, you are mostly increasing the intensity of the concentric. Maybe walking downhill might be better for producing some eccentric impact on the various tissues?

That said, I have considered putting a little bit of running into my weekly routine, just to retain some ability to jog or sprint comfortably, should circumstances require it.

There is something unique about running, where you launch yourself into the air, are completely off the ground, and then come back down in a way that your body has to absorb that impact, with all the force concentrated onto a single limb. It seems like a pretty good example of specificity in terms of the required adaptations.
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epdavis7

Average Al wrote:
epdavis7 wrote:
Al, a point you made is certainly valid. Awhile back when I started my job I was traveling all over the place in unfamiliar places so I just did the elliptical for an extended period. I was in a suit and it started to rain so I sprinted across the parking lot to my rental car. It felt like my ankles were weak and unstable and it was painful. I also felt uncoordinated and was out of breath in spite of damn near maxing out every cardio machine I got on. It took about 3 months to get back where I was once my job settled down. The cardio conditioning was there, but the specificity and strengthening of connective tissue was not....

That story pretty well captures what I feel these days when I do have a reason to break into a run.

And to be clear, my concern on the injury side isn't about injuries from the occasional low mileage run. It is what happens when you try to run a marathon after only being exposed to low mileage runs.

Decades ago, when in grad school, a friend of mine decided he would celebrate his birthday by running his age in kilometers. Since my birthday was the same week as his, I thought why not. So I went out with him for a 29K run, or about 18 miles. Prior to that, I had been mostly doing 4 to 6 mile runs, but I had done a couple of 8 to 10 mile efforts on a weekend.

I felt OK through the 10 mile point, but the last few miles started to feel tough. When I finally finished, my legs started to stiffen up and get sore almost immediately. The next several days, I was unbelievably sore. It killed my interest in ever trying to run a marathon.


I think low mileage is referring to weekly volume not specific runs. I no longer run races longer than half marathons, but I do run 10 miles at a slightly faster than half marathon pace. Andy Magness is different and does low volume entirely. He just does mind bending intensity. I prefer Aaron Olsons approach.
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