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Vince Gironda Diet and Supplements
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hit4me

Florida, USA

thru-out different threads, vince gironda and his various training methods come up for discussion, however, I never see any discussion on his dieting tips (steak and eggs) or liver dessicant supplements that he took....I was curious if anyone has ever tried his dieting methods and has taken any liver dessicant tablets, if so, what did you think of it?
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

==Scott==
Over the years I have taken about every know supplement and the only one I found really with a nickle was desiccated liver tablets.I found they provided a better state of well being and more energy through out the day. I'd be eating them now only they are so dang expensive.
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Crotalus

hit4me wrote:
thru-out different threads, vince gironda and his various training methods come up for discussion, however, I never see any discussion on his dieting tips (steak and eggs) or liver dessicant supplements that he took....I was curious if anyone has ever tried his dieting methods and has taken any liver dessicant tablets, if so, what did you think of it?


I'm pretty much on his diet for well over ten years now, if you call a low carb (125-150 grams) diet a 'Gironda diet'. But as far as the meat goes, it's usually fresh chicken or turkey burger and rarely beef as it just makes me feel lazy. Eggs are in there too too, vegetables are mostly in salads, and carbs being rice, baked potato or oatmeal. Don't know where it fits in with a 'Gironda diet' but in season I eat about five seedless watermelons a week ... can never have enough of it. Good thing it's not fattening ... but would eat it anyway if it were.

I used his liver pill suggestion many years ago when starting out and never noticed anything.

Tried them again a couple years ago after reading some positive stuff here about them but again I noticed nothing other then the widening of my throat from choking down those horse pill in quantities.

Someone here commented on them being really expensive but I thought they were cheap ( Solgar brand from Amazon ). I don't think they were even $20.00 a bottle. But I would have rather put that $$$ to chicken or eggs ... both at least a lot easier to swallow.
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BorisV

Maryland, USA

hit4me wrote:
thru-out different threads, vince gironda and his various training methods come up for discussion, however, I never see any discussion on his dieting tips (steak and eggs) or liver dessicant supplements that he took....I was curious if anyone has ever tried his dieting methods and has taken any liver dessicant tablets, if so, what did you think of it?


Vince's steak and eggs diet was an example of one of the plans which he recommended for a bodybuilder before a competition (6-8 weeks max). He also had other plans (see his book Unleashing the Wild Physique) and tried to build a plan around the person, not the other way around. I never competed and hardly will be (don't want to be surrounded by a bunch of gingerbread-looking brown guys, lol), but I tried the steak and eggs diet for a couple of weeks. I didn't have any negative effects which are commonly predicted by doctors (like constipation), however, it was a little bit boring for me. Moreover, my stomach doesn't accept meat well in the morning - although bacon goes well with eggs. Also, when you take lunch from home, this regimen doesn't work - I prefer my steak to be cooked and eaten at once. Steak and eggs diet is good for intermittent fasting when you eat just two times a day. Regarding desiccated liver tablets: I experimented with several brands. Some of them were pretty bad (Uniliver), some of them tremendously good (NSP Research Nutrition when still run by Ron Kosloff - looks like they changed the formula now), some of them so-so (Swanson, Beverly International). With older version of NSP I always got a feeling of high energy, stamina and could train more intensely. However, as usual with supplements, once you saturate your body with them, they reduce their effectiveness. I now eat liver regularly (once a week) and don't think there is a need for tablets (especially if I don't know where and how they are manufactured). Nature's way is the best way; no tablet will be better than natural food. Some people who can't stand liver at all, so for them tablets could be good. Weston A. Price Foundation supports desiccated liver tablets for bodybuilding purposes (in contrast to protein powders), but not in massive dozes, of course (4 tabs a day most). I seriously doubt all that stories that Gironda's students increased their arm size an inch or two just consuming hundreds of liver tablets. Most of them were on steroids. One of the greatest posers (Mohamed Makkawy), reportedly, abstained from food and took amino acids and liver tabs prior to Mr. Olympia (82-84??) - I doubt that information too.

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BorisV

Maryland, USA

Crotalus wrote:
hit4me wrote:
thru-out different threads, vince gironda and his various training methods come up for discussion, however, I never see any discussion on his dieting tips (steak and eggs) or liver dessicant supplements that he took....I was curious if anyone has ever tried his dieting methods and has taken any liver dessicant tablets, if so, what did you think of it?

I'm pretty much on his diet for well over ten years now, if you call a low carb (125-150 grams) diet a 'Gironda diet'. But as far as the meat goes, it's usually fresh chicken or turkey burger and rarely beef as it just makes me feel lazy. Eggs are in there too too, vegetables are mostly in salads, and carbs being rice, baked potato or oatmeal. Don't know where it fits in with a 'Gironda diet' but in season I eat about five seedless watermelons a week ... can never have enough of it. Good thing it's not fattening ... but would eat it anyway if it were.

I used his liver pill suggestion many years ago when starting out and never noticed anything.

Tried them again a couple years ago after reading some positive stuff here about them but again I noticed nothing other then the widening of my throat from choking down those horse pill in quantities.

Someone here commented on them being really expensive but I thought they were cheap ( Solgar brand from Amazon ). I don't think they were even $20.00 a bottle. But I would have rather put that $$$ to chicken or eggs ... both at least a lot easier to swallow.


I doubt that diet with 125-150 grams of carbs a day can be called Gironda Diet since he opposed carbs in favor of saturated fats (and for a good reason). However, the most important thing is what works best for you. I literally feel my love handles expanding when I consume more than 50 grams of carbs a day (no grain or bread at all, just fruits, veggies and berries). I prefer to keep my 29 inch waist; however, other people seems like to be made differently.

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DuzHIT

Florida, USA

You can chew the dessicated liver tabs.

Kosloffs were just liver which is why they gave the body a bit more. Most of the "liver" tabs now include whey and other stuff which boost up the nutritional profile but dont provide the heme iron you get fron straight liver.

Zanes tabs are supposed to be pretty good, but like everything else on his site, $$$.
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Nwlifter

LOTS of bodybuilders, then and now, use that super low carb (steak and eggs) diet, and for long term too. I did it to lose fat, and it worked awesomely. (is that word?) .

I used to take the liver pills, got capsules though, I can't swallow horse pills. Those I didn't notice anything from but I was young and super vigorous and healthy then, maybe I should retry those now that I'm old, tired and worn out!

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Turpin

Most who are not familiar with Vince`s training and diets misconstrue his dietary advice and think `steak and eggs` was all he advocated. The steak and eggs diet was his advocated `maximum definition` diet that realised a carb re-feed meal every 3rd day. Vince was not against carbs per se , he knew the value of carbs when used strategically and sparingly. He WAS a big advocate of optimising digestion and advised against food combining to improve/optimise the digestive ( acid / alkaline ) process with a mind that protein digests in a different medium to starches and one ( alkaline ) will hinder the other ( acid ) if combined. Some of his dietary advice advocated oatmeal for breakfast , but this breakfast meal was devoid of protein , and the main meal was animal protein without starches.
His `hormone precursor diet` was a diet high in saturated fats ( steak , eggs , double cream ) that was used short term in order to create higher male hormone levels naturally ( saturated fats and cholesterol are precursors of testosterone ).

His supplementation was again to promote optimal digestion and a positive nitrogen balance . 3 meals daily ( a green salad was the norm at mid-day ) with Digestive enzymes before each meal and liver tablets between meals to keep the system flooded for positive nitrogen balance.


I have been a long term advocate of both Vince`s training method and dietary advice and can honestly say that ( whilst I do not agree with everything he advocated ) anytime I apply myself to his advice I realise better progress than with any other method. And at age 53yrs I feel and look better than I have ever done. Recent blood work has shown that the dietary advice has improved my endocrine balance and overall well being.


T.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

I used to take the liver pills, got capsules though, I can't swallow horse pills. Those I didn't notice anything from but I was young and super vigorous and healthy then, maybe I should retry those now that I'm old, tired and worn out!

==Scott==
Those are exactly my thoughts, especially the old , tired and worn out part. Upon reading this article I went and added liver tablets to my Christmas list! Can't you just see this kid sitting on Santas knee and Santa says, what would you like for Christmas, little boy, and he says ,Santa, I want a bottle of Solgar Liver tablets!!
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Nwlifter

entsminger wrote:
I used to take the liver pills, got capsules though, I can't swallow horse pills. Those I didn't notice anything from but I was young and super vigorous and healthy then, maybe I should retry those now that I'm old, tired and worn out!

==Scott==
Those are exactly my thoughts, especially the old , tired and worn out part. Upon reading this article I went and added liver tablets to my Christmas list! Can't you just see this kid sitting on Santas knee and Santa says, what would you like for Christmas, little boy, and he says ,Santa, I want a bottle of Solgar Liver tablets!!


haha true, asking Santa for liver, ... probably not very common lol. I might have to try some again too. The extra vit B might help with energy too.
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BorisV

Maryland, USA

entsminger wrote:
I used to take the liver pills, got capsules though, I can't swallow horse pills. Those I didn't notice anything from but I was young and super vigorous and healthy then, maybe I should retry those now that I'm old, tired and worn out!

==Scott==
Those are exactly my thoughts, especially the old , tired and worn out part. Upon reading this article I went and added liver tablets to my Christmas list! Can't you just see this kid sitting on Santas knee and Santa says, what would you like for Christmas, little boy, and he says ,Santa, I want a bottle of Solgar Liver tablets!!


You could consider Swanson's liver capsules.
120 capsules, 500mg of defatted powder each, cost $4.20 (excl. shipping). So 1 capsule = $0.035. Solgar on Amazon: $19 for 250 tabs with 720 mg per tab. Cost $0.076 per tab

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BorisV

Maryland, USA

Turpin wrote:
Most who are not familiar with Vince`s training and diets misconstrue his dietary advice and think `steak and eggs` was all he advocated. The steak and eggs diet was his advocated `maximum definition` diet that realised a carb re-feed meal every 3rd day. Vince was not against carbs per se , he knew the value of carbs when used strategically and sparingly. He WAS a big advocate of optimising digestion and advised against food combining to improve/optimise the digestive ( acid / alkaline ) process with a mind that protein digests in a different medium to starches and one ( alkaline ) will hinder the other ( acid ) if combined. Some of his dietary advice advocated oatmeal for breakfast , but this breakfast meal was devoid of protein , and the main meal was animal protein without starches.
His `hormone precursor diet` was a diet high in saturated fats ( steak , eggs , double cream ) that was used short term in order to create higher male hormone levels naturally ( saturated fats and cholesterol are precursors of testosterone ).

His supplementation was again to promote optimal digestion and a positive nitrogen balance . 3 meals daily ( a green salad was the norm at mid-day ) with Digestive enzymes before each meal and liver tablets between meals to keep the system flooded for positive nitrogen balance.


I have been a long term advocate of both Vince`s training method and dietary advice and can honestly say that ( whilst I do not agree with everything he advocated ) anytime I apply myself to his advice I realise better progress than with any other method. And at age 53yrs I feel and look better than I have ever done. Recent blood work has shown that the dietary advice has improved my endocrine balance and overall well being.


T.


Fully agree, except for taking liver tabs between the meals. I still think they should be taken with meals (and my stomach agrees with me) as Rheo H. Blair recommended.

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Nwlifter

BorisV wrote:
Turpin wrote:
Most who are not familiar with Vince`s training and diets misconstrue his dietary advice and think `steak and eggs` was all he advocated. The steak and eggs diet was his advocated `maximum definition` diet that realised a carb re-feed meal every 3rd day. Vince was not against carbs per se , he knew the value of carbs when used strategically and sparingly. He WAS a big advocate of optimising digestion and advised against food combining to improve/optimise the digestive ( acid / alkaline ) process with a mind that protein digests in a different medium to starches and one ( alkaline ) will hinder the other ( acid ) if combined. Some of his dietary advice advocated oatmeal for breakfast , but this breakfast meal was devoid of protein , and the main meal was animal protein without starches.
His `hormone precursor diet` was a diet high in saturated fats ( steak , eggs , double cream ) that was used short term in order to create higher male hormone levels naturally ( saturated fats and cholesterol are precursors of testosterone ).

His supplementation was again to promote optimal digestion and a positive nitrogen balance . 3 meals daily ( a green salad was the norm at mid-day ) with Digestive enzymes before each meal and liver tablets between meals to keep the system flooded for positive nitrogen balance.


I have been a long term advocate of both Vince`s training method and dietary advice and can honestly say that ( whilst I do not agree with everything he advocated ) anytime I apply myself to his advice I realise better progress than with any other method. And at age 53yrs I feel and look better than I have ever done. Recent blood work has shown that the dietary advice has improved my endocrine balance and overall well being.


T.


Fully agree, except for taking liver tabs between the meals. I still think they should be taken with meals (and my stomach agrees with me) as Rheo H. Blair recommended.



I used to take them with and between, man did I get sick of swallowing those 6 to 7 times a day!
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backtrack

Liver pills never did anything for me - waste of money.
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hit4me

Florida, USA

back to his style of training?..I have reviewed some of his methods..are all of his training methods 6 days a week with training all bodyparts twice a week
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Turpin

hit4me wrote:
back to his style of training?..I have reviewed some of his methods..are all of his training methods 6 days a week with training all bodyparts twice a week


Vince's recommendations vary but in general he advocated an upper / lower split more than any other routine , performing 1 exercise per bodypart and training each muscle group x 2 weekly.
However even his upper / lower split called for x 3 upper body days and 2 lower for the recommended sets/reps for that routine.

From my experience a simple upper / lower split on alternate days ( Mon-Wed-Fri-Mon ) realised good gains and offers enough recovery.

T.
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Crotalus

I used to have his book 'Releasing the Wild Physique' but with others ( Dardens' ) , lent them out and never got them back.

But I thought I remembered EOD routines, full body and with only one exercise per muscle group but haven't seen the book in a long time so might be wrong.

I could never use the 8X8 and got away from doing full body routines. The sweet spot for me was a split routine , two or three exercises for each muscle group and two or three sets each - three being the most on one exercise.

Wouldn't put too much credibility in Vince ... in another thread a HIT expert said he was an idiot - you don't want to take advice from an idiot do you ? LOL
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Wouldn't put too much credibility in Vince ... in another thread a HIT expert said he was an idiot - you don't want to take advice from an idiot do you ? LOL

==Scott==
Wow, some guy on another thread said this and there for don't take his advice?? ha ha.
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BorisV

Maryland, USA

Crotalus wrote:
I used to have his book 'Releasing the Wild Physique' but with others ( Dardens' ) , lent them out and never got them back.

But I thought I remembered EOD routines, full body and with only one exercise per muscle group but haven't seen the book in a long time so might be wrong.

I could never use the 8X8 and got away from doing full body routines. The sweet spot for me was a split routine , two or three exercises for each muscle group and two or three sets each - three being the most on one exercise.

Wouldn't put too much credibility in Vince ... in another thread a HIT expert said he was an idiot - you don't want to take advice from an idiot do you ? LOL


No doubt, Vince was not an easy man to deal with, but definitely he was not an idiot. Too many of his recommendations stood the time and were proved to be effective for muscle building.
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Nwlifter

BorisV wrote:
Crotalus wrote:
I used to have his book 'Releasing the Wild Physique' but with others ( Dardens' ) , lent them out and never got them back.

But I thought I remembered EOD routines, full body and with only one exercise per muscle group but haven't seen the book in a long time so might be wrong.

I could never use the 8X8 and got away from doing full body routines. The sweet spot for me was a split routine , two or three exercises for each muscle group and two or three sets each - three being the most on one exercise.

Wouldn't put too much credibility in Vince ... in another thread a HIT expert said he was an idiot - you don't want to take advice from an idiot do you ? LOL


No doubt, Vince was not an easy man to deal with, but definitely he was not an idiot. Too many of his recommendations stood the time and were proved to be effective for muscle building.


Agree, he was well ahead of his time, how he knew some of the stuff he knew, when nutritional research hadn't even figured it out yet, we'll never know
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Crotalus

Hope my comment on not taking his advice was read as I meant it , as sarcasm. His stuff should not be ignored just because he was written off by the HIT crowd as an idiot.

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BorisV

Maryland, USA

Nwlifter wrote:
BorisV wrote:
Crotalus wrote:
I used to have his book 'Releasing the Wild Physique' but with others ( Dardens' ) , lent them out and never got them back.

But I thought I remembered EOD routines, full body and with only one exercise per muscle group but haven't seen the book in a long time so might be wrong.

I could never use the 8X8 and got away from doing full body routines. The sweet spot for me was a split routine , two or three exercises for each muscle group and two or three sets each - three being the most on one exercise.

Wouldn't put too much credibility in Vince ... in another thread a HIT expert said he was an idiot - you don't want to take advice from an idiot do you ? LOL


No doubt, Vince was not an easy man to deal with, but definitely he was not an idiot. Too many of his recommendations stood the time and were proved to be effective for muscle building.


Agree, he was well ahead of his time, how he knew some of the stuff he knew, when nutritional research hadn't even figured it out yet, we'll never know


I would not limit his valuable insights to the sphere of nutrition only. Most of his training concepts are valid too, especially in relation to muscle / physique building (vs. strength building). True, some of the exercises he advocated are not for everyone (one can find a parallel here with 1st Gen Nautilus machines which can be uncomfortable for people with small frame), but he was able to produce quick results during times when steroid usage was not so rampant in movie industry.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Agree, he was well ahead of his time, how he knew some of the stuff he knew, when nutritional research hadn't even figured it out yet, we'll never know

== Scott ==
Perfect example to show that you don?t need 14 studies to know which way the wind blows. You can pretty accurately figure out how to do things with a little trial and error.
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Nwlifter

BorisV wrote:
Nwlifter wrote:
BorisV wrote:
Crotalus wrote:
I used to have his book 'Releasing the Wild Physique' but with others ( Dardens' ) , lent them out and never got them back.

But I thought I remembered EOD routines, full body and with only one exercise per muscle group but haven't seen the book in a long time so might be wrong.

I could never use the 8X8 and got away from doing full body routines. The sweet spot for me was a split routine , two or three exercises for each muscle group and two or three sets each - three being the most on one exercise.

Wouldn't put too much credibility in Vince ... in another thread a HIT expert said he was an idiot - you don't want to take advice from an idiot do you ? LOL


No doubt, Vince was not an easy man to deal with, but definitely he was not an idiot. Too many of his recommendations stood the time and were proved to be effective for muscle building.


Agree, he was well ahead of his time, how he knew some of the stuff he knew, when nutritional research hadn't even figured it out yet, we'll never know

I would not limit his valuable insights to the sphere of nutrition only. Most of his training concepts are valid too, especially in relation to muscle / physique building (vs. strength building). True, some of the exercises he advocated are not for everyone (one can find a parallel here with 1st Gen Nautilus machines which can be uncomfortable for people with small frame), but he was able to produce quick results during times when steroid usage was not so rampant in movie industry.


I didn't mean that, just that nutrition stuff was things even science didn't know in those days, so really wild he knew that.
but training, that's his best advice IMO.
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Nwlifter

entsminger wrote:
Agree, he was well ahead of his time, how he knew some of the stuff he knew, when nutritional research hadn't even figured it out yet, we'll never know

== Scott ==
Perfect example to show that you don?t need 14 studies to know which way the wind blows. You can pretty accurately figure out how to do things with a little trial and error.


Yes, but 16 studies , now THAT is significant! ;)
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