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John Little Wrong on Cardio ?
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ATP 4 Vitality

I had a good laugh when I read John Little's article entitled "What About Cardio?". Previously, Mr. Little has included little on cardio during his literary efforts, mainly concentrating on isometric training of one type or another.


He has collaborated with Dr. Doug McGuff (notoriously anti-cardio) on written materials previously. So I was not caught off guard with this anti-cardio article, but his lack of documented facts and logic in the aforementioned article were of concern. I will always examine his future writings with a large grain of salt.


He writes: "the more demanding the muscular work, the greater the involvement of the cardiovascular system". He offers no facts to back his statement, but rather typical OLD HIT jargon reasonings. He seems to have never heard of the Valsalva maneuver, whereas the body clearly reduces venous blood return to the heart during strenuous activity such as resistance training. Circuit weight training is not nearly as effective a cardiovascular training agent as running or cross country skiing.

He goes on to state: "the more demanding the muscular work, the greater the aerobic involvement." He fails to mention that the body also uses anaerobic metabolism during intense activities, which aerobic metabolism supports.

He also goes on to complain of certain cardio activities as being joint unfriendly, with no facts presented to back such claim up. Claims are just that - - claims. Calling treadmills and bicycles punishing is just jargon so common with John Little and his cohort.


He writes of timesaving recently - - - perhaps the best timesaving thing is just to not read his new book.





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SWISS-HIT

Well what is cardio? When my heart has to pump faster to get that blood/ oxigen into my muscles.

I once did full HIT- circuit with a heart rate moniter on.

As advised, by my trainier back then, i kept the time from machine to machine under one minute.

Basically i finished one exercise, almost ran to next machine, set it up, started pumping again.

My heartbeat was between 140 to a 170 beats per minute. That is a very good heartrate for cardio.

My question is: How do we measure how efficient a cardiotraining is?

My answer would be two factors:

1. The resting pulse which is lower with trained individuals

2 The training pulse which has do be sufficient to stimulate heart growth.

I agree that running is much better for cardio than pumping iron.

Because you can controll the heartrate much better. Keep it steady.

Also i think that running has, yes i use the word functional now ;), a very functional benefit, because in normal life you will normaly use that extra heart strength when you have to run or walk fast. So i think it makes sense to run for cardio.

I used to run when i was younger. But i stopped for two reasons. It kills your knees and often runners get a very bad back from it.

Second recovery and strength loss.
I used to run 3 times a week. That was the weakest time in my life. Espcially leg strength went down the toilet.

So it really depends on what you want from it..



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entsminger

Virginia, USA

== Scott==
When I was much younger I ran triathlons , 10 ks and marathons and did HIT. I was in fantastic shape. In recent years I have ceased most all the cardio work but have kept up my lifting. The other day I was carrying some 20 boxes up stairs back and forth. Half way through I was huffing and puffing like a worn out steam engine. I had to stop and rest twice. I felt like I was 100 years old. Lifting weights is no replacement for the benefits of a good cardio program.
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ATP 4 Vitality

entsminger wrote:
== Scott==
Lifting weights is no replacement for the benefits of a good cardio program.


This is experience talking - - - listen to it!
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hit4me

Florida, USA

ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
entsminger wrote:
== Scott==
Lifting weights is no replacement for the benefits of a good cardio program.

This is experience talking - - - listen to it!


why does it have to be a replacement...do both

I have a hard time understanding why the argument of whether one is better than the other......just do both along with some flexibilty exercises and healthy eating and you can lead a productive lifestyle
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ATP 4 Vitality

@ SH,

An increased heart rate is not indicative of cardio vascular fitness. If heart rate mattered, I could scare you to fitness.
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SWISS-HIT

hit4me wrote:
ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
entsminger wrote:
== Scott==
Lifting weights is no replacement for the benefits of a good cardio program.

This is experience talking - - - listen to it!

why does it have to be a replacement...do both

I have a hard time understanding why the argument of whether one is better than the other......just do both along with some flexibilty exercises and healthy eating and you can lead a productive lifestyle


Totally agree. When talking about complete fitness cardio is a must. On the other hand running never gave me much, because i enjoy seeing the nature not running through it huffing and puffing. I enjoy walks in the woods. Smelling the roses :D



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SWISS-HIT

ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
@ SH,

An increased heart rate is not indicative of cardio vascular fitness. If heart rate mattered, I could scare you to fitness.


Please explain? I had the luck to get supervision from a sports physician. Based on my data he calculated my optimal training pulse and gave me training program. I always went running with a heart rate montior- belt. Managed to get my resting pulse down 10 heartbeats per minutes within two months. Which is the main indicator that my heart got stronger. At least till now?
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Crotalus


I have a hard time understanding why the argument of whether one is better than the other


I think that outlook is only from those die-hards who try and follow the original HIT guidelines where cardio was dismissed.

What I never understood was that the football teams that followed HIT as their strength training also had their players run ... or am I mistaken about that ? Maybe running isn't part of football programs ?

I'm not defending running because I love running - I don't and never ran. My 'cardio' if you want to call it is walking dogs a couple hours a day. It certainly isn't strenuous so how far that goes to attributing to good cardio health I have no idea.
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hit4me

Florida, USA

Crotalus wrote:

I have a hard time understanding why the argument of whether one is better than the other


I think that outlook is only from those die-hards who try and follow the original HIT guidelines where cardio was dismissed.

What I never understood was that the football teams that followed HIT as their strength training also had their players run ... or am I mistaken about that ? Maybe running isn't part of football programs ?

I'm not defending running because I love running - I don't and never ran. My 'cardio' if you want to call it is walking dogs a couple hours a day. It certainly isn't strenuous so how far that goes to attributing to good cardio health I have no idea.


when the dolphins, the bengels and penn state were following the nautilus training principals back in the 70s, they ran and did the football drills too....I think Jones was only saying for the average Joe, running was not necessary if you followed the nautilus training principals....don't agree with this, but its what I think he was indicating
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

==Scott==
Like I said, I ran ,biked and swam and did HIT type workouts.Did each one twice a week.As you get older you'll find the importance of how winded you get just hiking up a steep grade or steps vrs how much you can curl or deadlift.
Another thing, regaining cardio conditioning is much harder than regaining strength. I can stop working out for 3 months and then start again and within 3 weeks my strength has returned. For cardio it's like starting all over.
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Nwlifter

What I think, people do not think about is this....
Cardiovascular muscle, is about the slowest of slow twitch there is. We know even the slow twitch fibers in skeletal muscle require a more sustained use for adaptations. Therefore, even if just talking about the myo-fibers in the cardio system, we can see how short bursts of usage are not fitting to their stimulation for adaptations process.
Plus, some of the other benefits from 'sustained cardio' training (larger arterial diameter) seem to be triggered by the need for a sustained increased blood flow, not from a short quick burst of circulation. Although, weight training can cause left ventricle hypertrophy
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Landau

Florida, USA

(Aerobic - Aerobics - Cardio - Cardiovascular Exercise) Only One Word Actually Means Anything and that is Aerobic (1881) - Living in the presence of Oxygen (Comes from the organism Aerobe) Aerobics started in around 1967 and was a Points System based on Running Primarily - Cardio - Word form that refers to the Heart - Cardio is Now defined as Cardiovascular Exercise (Thanks Google) Cardiovascular Exercise then becomes a Bastardized and Dead End Aberration. I have done tireless Hours and Hours of Investigation and Research - Dead End Road - There is Nothing of Value in getting your Heart Rate up for any reason
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PTDaniel

Nwlifter wrote:
What I think, people do not think about is this....
Cardiovascular muscle, is about the slowest of slow twitch there is. We know even the slow twitch fibers in skeletal muscle require a more sustained use for adaptations. Therefore, even if just talking about the myo-fibers in the cardio system, we can see how short bursts of usage are not fitting to their stimulation for adaptations process.
Plus, some of the other benefits from 'sustained cardio' training (larger arterial diameter) seem to be triggered by the need for a sustained increased blood flow, not from a short quick burst of circulation. Although, weight training can cause left ventricle hypertrophy


I've started training people with short burst intense intervals similar to the Tabata protocol (:20 maximum intensity/ :10 rest). My first rounds of trainee retests on the YMCA 3 minute step test have had drops of 10+ beats per minute after 1 minute recovery when compared to their tests 6 to 8 weeks prior. One trainee's resting heart rate dropped over 10 beats per minute over the last 2 months. This particular trainees results may be affected by the significant fat loss she is experiencing however.
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Resultsbased

entsminger wrote:
==Scott==
Like I said, I ran ,biked and swam and did HIT type workouts.Did each one twice a week.As you get older you'll find the importance of how winded you get just hiking up a steep grade or steps vrs how much you can curl or deadlift.
Another thing, regaining cardio conditioning is much harder than regaining strength. I can stop working out for 3 months and then start again and within 3 weeks my strength has returned. For cardio it's like starting all over.


So true. You can strength train all you want, but try going on a run or hiking some really steep hills. The demands are very different.
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Resultsbased

Landau wrote:
(Aerobic - Aerobics - Cardio - Cardiovascular Exercise) Only One Word Actually Means Anything and that is Aerobic (1881) - Living in the presence of Oxygen (Comes from the organism Aerobe) Aerobics started in around 1967 and was a Points System based on Running Primarily - Cardio - Word form that refers to the Heart - Cardio is Now defined as Cardiovascular Exercise (Thanks Google) Cardiovascular Exercise then becomes a Bastardized and Dead End Aberration. I have done tireless Hours and Hours of Investigation and Research - Dead End Road - There is Nothing of Value in getting your Heart Rate up for any reason


LOL! Then why bother training at all?

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hit4me

Florida, USA

Resultsbased wrote:
entsminger wrote:
==Scott==
Like I said, I ran ,biked and swam and did HIT type workouts.Did each one twice a week.As you get older you'll find the importance of how winded you get just hiking up a steep grade or steps vrs how much you can curl or deadlift.
Another thing, regaining cardio conditioning is much harder than regaining strength. I can stop working out for 3 months and then start again and within 3 weeks my strength has returned. For cardio it's like starting all over.

So true. You can strength train all you want, but try going on a run or hiking some really steep hills. The demands are very different.


I beg to differ, last year, I was on a nautilus style training principal for many months...full body circuit style, 2x/week with no other cardio....went from south florida to north Carolina and went skiing for a few days, was very surprised that I had no issues climbing hills or skiing
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

ad - There is Nothing of Value in getting your Heart Rate up for any reason.

== Scott ==
Now I?ve heard everything, ha ha
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Landau wrote:
(Aerobic - Aerobics - Cardio - Cardiovascular Exercise) Only One Word Actually Means Anything and that is Aerobic (1881) - Living in the presence of Oxygen (Comes from the organism Aerobe) Aerobics started in around 1967 and was a Points System based on Running Primarily - Cardio - Word form that refers to the Heart - Cardio is Now defined as Cardiovascular Exercise (Thanks Google) Cardiovascular Exercise then becomes a Bastardized and Dead End Aberration. I have done tireless Hours and Hours of Investigation and Research - Dead End Road - There is Nothing of Value in getting your Heart Rate up for any reason


==Scott==
To come up with a statement that there is no value in getting your heart rate up only proves that you have spent tireless hours of investigation and research on terminology and the root meaning of words ( which is prevalent here) and very little time on the value of a strong heart and lungs.
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Landau

Florida, USA

entsminger wrote:
Landau wrote:
(Aerobic - Aerobics - Cardio - Cardiovascular Exercise) Only One Word Actually Means Anything and that is Aerobic (1881) - Living in the presence of Oxygen (Comes from the organism Aerobe) Aerobics started in around 1967 and was a Points System based on Running Primarily - Cardio - Word form that refers to the Heart - Cardio is Now defined as Cardiovascular Exercise (Thanks Google) Cardiovascular Exercise then becomes a Bastardized and Dead End Aberration. I have done tireless Hours and Hours of Investigation and Research - Dead End Road - There is Nothing of Value in getting your Heart Rate up for any reason

==Scott==
To come up with a statement that there is no value in getting your heart rate up only proves that you have spent tireless hours of investigation and research on terminology and the root meaning of words ( which is prevalent here) and very little time on the value of a strong heart and lungs.


Heart Disease is Not a Disease of Performance, it's a Pathology - Getting Your Heart Rate Up Based on the Vast Majority of the Gross Anatomical Activities Employed is Totally Wrongheaded - You have Fallen For the Misled Collective - Your Heart and Lungs are a Check and Balance to what Activities you choose and the Adaptations are Specific to those Tasks - The Word Meanings that I posted were meant to Inform the Culture's way of bastardizing the Language - I started researching this Topic some 25 Years ago based on the subject of Cardiology - If you believe in the Myth of "Cardiovascular Exercise," First of all - such a concept can't even exist by what it suggests alone.
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Nwlifter

PTDaniel wrote:
Nwlifter wrote:
What I think, people do not think about is this....
Cardiovascular muscle, is about the slowest of slow twitch there is. We know even the slow twitch fibers in skeletal muscle require a more sustained use for adaptations. Therefore, even if just talking about the myo-fibers in the cardio system, we can see how short bursts of usage are not fitting to their stimulation for adaptations process.
Plus, some of the other benefits from 'sustained cardio' training (larger arterial diameter) seem to be triggered by the need for a sustained increased blood flow, not from a short quick burst of circulation. Although, weight training can cause left ventricle hypertrophy

I've started training people with short burst intense intervals similar to the Tabata protocol (:20 maximum intensity/ :10 rest). My first rounds of trainee retests on the YMCA 3 minute step test have had drops of 10+ beats per minute after 1 minute recovery when compared to their tests 6 to 8 weeks prior. One trainee's resting heart rate dropped over 10 beats per minute over the last 2 months. This particular trainees results may be affected by the significant fat loss she is experiencing however.


True yes, I guess we should be more specific when were refer to 'weight lifting' and it's effects. If a person keeps the heart up with running, weights, sports, .... anything, it has these great effects. I think the lesser effects from weightlifting would be more from the 'long rest period' power lifting workouts, where people do a short heavy set, rest 5 minutes, do another.. that's the style that probably does very little for cardio.
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Resultsbased

hit4me wrote:
Resultsbased wrote:
entsminger wrote:
==Scott==
Like I said, I ran ,biked and swam and did HIT type workouts.Did each one twice a week.As you get older you'll find the importance of how winded you get just hiking up a steep grade or steps vrs how much you can curl or deadlift.
Another thing, regaining cardio conditioning is much harder than regaining strength. I can stop working out for 3 months and then start again and within 3 weeks my strength has returned. For cardio it's like starting all over.

So true. You can strength train all you want, but try going on a run or hiking some really steep hills. The demands are very different.

I beg to differ, last year, I was on a nautilus style training principal for many months...full body circuit style, 2x/week with no other cardio....went from south florida to north Carolina and went skiing for a few days, was very surprised that I had no issues climbing hills or skiing


Congratulations on your training and fitness level.

My experience and that of several others I trained with was vastly different. I went from circuit training and no cardio to running stairs. Like Scott said, strength training comes back in a hurry, but cardio - not so much.

Perhaps the Kenyans will start circuit training since that's all that's required. Joking!
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Heart Disease is Not a Disease of Performance, it's a Pathology -

==Scott==
Nobody was talking about heart disease?? You know Landau, there are times on here where you seem to make good sense and times when you sound like a raving mad man.This time is like the latter. I really don't know what to say to you?
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ATP 4 Vitality

I love a good argument. Lol!

Hutchins and McGuff are too scared to debate with facts or logic on cardiovascular conditioning.

We will likely only see their proxies dribbling half truths and folklores from the Nautilus heyday.

Too bad Landau defected from SuperSlow only to retain the anti-aerobic refuse.
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ATP 4 Vitality

SWISS-HIT wrote:
ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
@ SH,

An increased heart rate is not indicative of cardio vascular fitness. If heart rate mattered, I could scare you to fitness.

Please explain?



https://breakingmuscle.com/...ode-book-review
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