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oldbutsteady

hit4me,

I agree and I will not to try to lump all HITters together but it is just maddening for me to read how many here claim they believe in science and fact and then watch them ignore both for opinion and hero worship.

OBS
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oldbutsteady

Duz,

That is exactly the point, each has a specific meaning, regardless the spelling but I guess you missed that day in school...

OBS
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ATP 4 Vitality

Grant D. wrote: BTW if one is taking statins... they are perhaps the NUMBER ONE issue in your systemic overload after exercise ... and severely thwarting any muscle, strength, size gains ... if not successfully reducing.
... disclaimer ... my viewpoints.

Grant


U got that right /// viewpoint. And an ignorant dangerous baseless one!
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Grant D. wrote:
Mayo is compromised and promotes assumptions. Typically SOME of their published recommendations on issues are 30 to 40 years behind current science ... Statins and cholesterol are an example. BTW if one is taking statins... they are perhaps the NUMBER ONE issue in your systemic overload after exercise ... and severely thwarting any muscle, strength, size gains ... if not successfully reducing.
... disclaimer ... my viewpoints.

Grant


== Scott ==
So you know more than the people at Mayo Clinic!! You are one really brilliant fellow!! When do you start working on the cure for cancer or does your MAX Pyramid do that too??
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epdavis7

Ran a 10k/5k challenge today and took a close look at the runners because of this thread. The elite males all had the same build. Five foot 5 or so and about 135 pounds with very little muscle. Are they healthy? Who knows? They run really well. Does this translate to health and well being? I?m not convinced.

I personally was in the upper mid pack group and finished in the top tier for my age group despite being considerably bigger than most of the other runners (not fat, just bigger) I watched those coming in after me and it?s clearly evident that running alone does little for weight management. These runners could run 9.3 miles which shows a certain level of specific aerobic fitness but were still carrying more body fat than what would be considered a healthy weight. The closer you got to runners finishing near the back the more it became evident. They still ran 9.3 miles which is an achievement. Are they healthy? Who knows? Lots of folks had new braces etc and were hobbling afterwards and showing other signs of gimpiness. I enjoy races, the camaraderie and the great people I hang out with at these events, but I would never recommend running as a method of weight loss or even as an activity to enhance your health. It?s the same with self defense training. I enjoy it, but I wouldn?t recommend it as a method of weight loss or health enhancement. I think genetics, diet, stress management, adequate sleep and hydration combined with strength training and perhaps some easy leisurely walking and staying active in general will get you as healthy (not fit for a specific activity, there is a difference) as your genetics will allow. If you have a passion for a physical activity, go for it, but understand risk vs reward should factor into the equation and wear and tear issues are real.
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hit4me

Florida, USA

Grant D. wrote:
Mayo is compromised and promotes assumptions. Typically SOME of their published recommendations on issues are 30 to 40 years behind current science ... Statins and cholesterol are an example. BTW if one is taking statins... they are perhaps the NUMBER ONE issue in your systemic overload after exercise ... and severely thwarting any muscle, strength, size gains ... if not successfully reducing.
... disclaimer ... my viewpoints.

Grant


I guess all the lives that statins have saved over the years is a hoax too, did not realize that you are a cardiologist
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HeavyHitter32

hit4me wrote:

I guess all the lives that statins have saved over the years is a hoax too, did not realize that you are a cardiologist


Yep...he's an utter moron, but we all knew that. lol
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hit4me

Florida, USA

epdavis7 wrote:
Ran a 10k/5k challenge today and took a close look at the runners because of this thread. The elite males all had the same build. Five foot 5 or so and about 135 pounds with very little muscle. Are they healthy? Who knows? They run really well. Does this translate to health and well being? I?m not convinced.

I personally was in the upper mid pack group and finished in the top tier for my age group despite being considerably bigger than most of the other runners (not fat, just bigger) I watched those coming in after me and it?s clearly evident that running alone does little for weight management. These runners could run 9.3 miles which shows a certain level of specific aerobic fitness but were still carrying more body fat than what would be considered a healthy weight. The closer you got to runners finishing near the back the more it became evident. They still ran 9.3 miles which is an achievement. Are they healthy? Who knows? Lots of folks had new braces etc and were hobbling afterwards and showing other signs of gimpiness. I enjoy races, the camaraderie and the great people I hang out with at these events, but I would never recommend running as a method of weight loss or even as an activity to enhance your health. It?s the same with self defense training. I enjoy it, but I wouldn?t recommend it as a method of weight loss or health enhancement. I think genetics, diet, stress management, adequate sleep and hydration combined with strength training and perhaps some easy leisurely walking and staying active in general will get you as healthy (not fit for a specific activity, there is a difference) as your genetics will allow. If you have a passion for a physical activity, go for it, but understand risk vs reward should factor into the equation and wear and tear issues are real.


did you run a 10k and then a 5k....what does 10k/5k mean?
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Grant D.

Illinois, USA

Yes, I know more on some things than the Mayo Talking Points, and yes ... the cure for Most cancers has been evident for the last decade or so.
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1958

Texas, USA

hit4me wrote:
Grant D. wrote:
Mayo is compromised and promotes assumptions. Typically SOME of their published recommendations on issues are 30 to 40 years behind current science ... Statins and cholesterol are an example. BTW if one is taking statins... they are perhaps the NUMBER ONE issue in your systemic overload after exercise ... and severely thwarting any muscle, strength, size gains ... if not successfully reducing.
... disclaimer ... my viewpoints.

Grant

For the "success" rate on statins,please visit thennt.com. Stay away from those drugs!

I guess all the lives that statins have saved over the years is a hoax too, did not realize that you are a cardiologist


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epdavis7

hit4me wrote:
epdavis7 wrote:
Ran a 10k/5k challenge today and took a close look at the runners because of this thread. The elite males all had the same build. Five foot 5 or so and about 135 pounds with very little muscle. Are they healthy? Who knows? They run really well. Does this translate to health and well being? I?m not convinced.

I personally was in the upper mid pack group and finished in the top tier for my age group despite being considerably bigger than most of the other runners (not fat, just bigger) I watched those coming in after me and it?s clearly evident that running alone does little for weight management. These runners could run 9.3 miles which shows a certain level of specific aerobic fitness but were still carrying more body fat than what would be considered a healthy weight. The closer you got to runners finishing near the back the more it became evident. They still ran 9.3 miles which is an achievement. Are they healthy? Who knows? Lots of folks had new braces etc and were hobbling afterwards and showing other signs of gimpiness. I enjoy races, the camaraderie and the great people I hang out with at these events, but I would never recommend running as a method of weight loss or even as an activity to enhance your health. It?s the same with self defense training. I enjoy it, but I wouldn?t recommend it as a method of weight loss or health enhancement. I think genetics, diet, stress management, adequate sleep and hydration combined with strength training and perhaps some easy leisurely walking and staying active in general will get you as healthy (not fit for a specific activity, there is a difference) as your genetics will allow. If you have a passion for a physical activity, go for it, but understand risk vs reward should factor into the equation and wear and tear issues are real.

did you run a 10k and then a 5k....what does 10k/5k mean?


I sure did. Man was it humid. There was a short break between events. I really pushed it on the 10k and it took a few minutes to find my stride on the 5k. The break between events for me was harder than if we had kept running nonstop. My legs were stiff from standing around waiting for people to finish.
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ron33

Grant D. wrote:
Yes, I know more on some things than the Mayo Talking Points, and yes ... the cure for Most cancers has been evident for the last decade or so.


The Answer Is - BLOVIATOR ! Enough Said .
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oldbutsteady

I think EP's assessment proves my point about aerobic conditioning. Regardless of the overall fitness of the person they were able to run mile after mile due to their training.

A person in similar condition without the aerobic training probably would have not been able to run mile after mile at any pace. I'm speaking in general terms, there are always exceptions.

OBS
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sgb2112

Over 50 kilo's weight loss..

https://youtu.be/SJqOKNy_jJk
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epdavis7

I ran this 20k (12.4 miles) trail run back in early June and I?m finally getting my 2nd place age group mug. Sounds impressive, but really isn?t because there were only 5 people in my age group in the race lol. It was a highly technical trail, so it was less about speed and more about agility on uneven terrain and avoiding tree limbs, stumps and roots (and it was crazy hot and humid also). A lot of people face planted during the event. They were supposed to give it to me after the race and gave it to the wrong person. It took 10 emails and me paying shipping and handling to get it.

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spud

oldbutsteady wrote:
Perhaps you should try it before you make absolute statements based on pseudo science and other peoples opinions. However, that would require an open mind and a willingness to test your beliefs and I doubt you would risk being wrong.


2001 - 2004

Trained for and ran 3 half marathons in a year (2003) with times of 01:59, 02:06 and 01:48.

Trained for and participated in a 50 mile cycle ride. Didn't train too much for this as I didn't have my own bike. Something like 2:30 in the end with about 2 months of training.

Played competitive Ultimate Frisbee for 3 years. Training for this was shuttle runs, interval sprints and hill sprints, 3 times a week (Mon, Wed, Fri) at the END of training sessions which already has us running around for about 90 minutes without too much rest.

Trail running in my home county for about 6 months ending in summer 2004.

=======

Before all that I ran middle distance (800m and 1500m at school (1994 - 1999), but not that well, and I ran cross country (10k) for a couple of years.

I stopped in 2004 because my legs were tight and were in what I would describe as low level pain all the time despite massages and hot/cold baths. In early 2004 I had to stop running for a couple of months because my left knee was causing me a lot of pain. I resumed running briefly on trails but then quit and started strength training in September 2004 after reading Beyond BRAWN.

I tried resuming Ultimate Frisbee in 2009 - 2010 but had to stop. Why? Because the sport involves a LOT of running, and my faithful old left knee started hurting again.

My training partner for the half marathons was chubby and stayed chubby throughout it all.

Many of the Frisbee team that did all the sprinting I did was fat and stayed fat.

I have a bunch of other anecdotal evidence but it's not going to mean much to you so I'll leave it there.
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oldbutsteady

Never put yourself down EP, that is what we do for you :)

OBS
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oldbutsteady

Spud,

So as I stated, and you agreed based on your experience, long term running is bad for you.

Secondly, as I stated that running and diet control is better than running alone. I need more info, about your chubby friend. Did he eat like a pig, was he predisposed to be heavy, or was he a large person i.e. muscular with excess fat?

Last but not least, were you in better aerobic condition then or now? I noticed in your post you just ignored the entire basis of the posts I've put forward, that aerobic training provides aerobic benefits at a greater level than weight training alone. Please address that now that you posted your bona fides.

Since you just agreed with everything I've posted here, I don't understand the point of your last post other than to prove you have experience with running.

OBS
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epdavis7

Here is my high tech running program lol/

I alternate 2 different runs. One week I run a 6 mile run with a metronome trying to increase foot turnover speed on a flat course.

The following week I run 10 miles on a hilly course without a metronome.

I run once a week, never more. Sometimes instead of a 6 mile run I'll do a 4 mile run at an even faster pace.

I strength train once a week in a metcon style for about 15 minutes.

Other than that I walk my dogs twice daily, do self defense training 2-3 days a week and do a lot of manual labor taking care of my house and property. I do a lot of firearms training also, but thats not real physical except when I'm practicing shooting on the move.
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oldbutsteady

EP,

Before the wonders on high tech, I tied 2 keys into the same shoe lace one next to the other. The metallic clinking served the same purpose as your metronome.

The clinking provides immediate feedback when you slack off or speed up.

OBS
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Chris H

hit4me wrote:
Grant D. wrote:
Mayo is compromised and promotes assumptions. Typically SOME of their published recommendations on issues are 30 to 40 years behind current science ... Statins and cholesterol are an example. BTW if one is taking statins... they are perhaps the NUMBER ONE issue in your systemic overload after exercise ... and severely thwarting any muscle, strength, size gains ... if not successfully reducing.
... disclaimer ... my viewpoints.

Grant

I guess all the lives that statins have saved over the years is a hoax too, did not realize that you are a cardiologist


Not defending nor supporting Grant, nor can i relay or put any medical studies or expert cardiologists opinions here right now on this forum, nor am i an expert in anything even remotely related, BUT several years ago both my wife and brother in law were diagnosed with high cholesterol - the bad one.

We collectively did a lot of research, read the books, the studies, the articles, both by professionals within the relevant medical communities and outside.
Lots of for and against - "statins"

Common points raised from memory were

1/ there was a contention if raised bad cholesterol affected heart health in the absence of other bio-markers - I.E - high body fat, blood pressure, onset diabetes, age etc etc

2/ there was contention in regard to if statins actually worked.
I.E - i cant remember the percentages, but it was quite high - "for those that statins had little effect on their cholesterol levels"

3/ there was contention in regard to statins, lowering both bad and good cholesterol, which was not desirable.

4/ it was believed that statins stopped or prohibited the liver from producing coenzyme CQ10, which the body produces as a natural defence against heart related issues.
Therefore it was theorised that statins therefore could not protect one from heart disease.

Much more including long term studies, producing no significant benefit of using statins.

Obviously there were medical oopinions, studies etc etc, that said the ploar opposite,

What was one to do.

My brother in law took the stains, his cholesterol dropped back to so called normal levels.
He's still on them, and has side effects - achy joints.

My wide dropped 20 pounds, super cleaned up her diet, and started moving more.
Her cholesterol levels dropped back to the so called normal levels, although at a slower pace then my brother in laws, but she is ache free, and not processing chemicals on a daily basis.

Not scientific of course, not absolute, and there's to many outside variables to draw a concise conclusion, but from what we read/learnt and our collective experiences, i believe we have a reason to question big pharma
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HeavyHitter32

Every medication does or can have side effects. Diet and exercise should be used as a first approach although most people are not disciplined enough with either, hence, medication becomes a bigger factor for them.

If I recall, statins are also anti-inflammatory which plays a key role in heart disease. (Side note: everyone over 40 should know their C-Reactive Protein number in addition to lipids and glucose.)
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

HeavyHitter32 wrote:
Every medication does or can have side effects. Diet and exercise should be used as a first approach although most people are not disciplined enough with either, hence, medication becomes a bigger factor for them.

If I recall, statins are also anti-inflammatory which plays a key role in heart disease. (Side note: everyone over 40 should know their C-Reactive Protein number in addition to lipids and glucose.)


==Scott==
Drugs are always easier. A co worker has this acid reflux stuff and it's basically from eating poorly and he knows it. He comes in yesterday with his MacDonald's and I said hows the reflux going and he says the stuff/pills I'm taking for it seems to be working.






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epdavis7

entsminger wrote:
HeavyHitter32 wrote:
Every medication does or can have side effects. Diet and exercise should be used as a first approach although most people are not disciplined enough with either, hence, medication becomes a bigger factor for them.

If I recall, statins are also anti-inflammatory which plays a key role in heart disease. (Side note: everyone over 40 should know their C-Reactive Protein number in addition to lipids and glucose.)

==Scott==
Drugs are always easier. A co worker has this acid reflux stuff and it's basically from eating poorly and he knows it. He comes in yesterday with his MacDonald's and I said hows the reflux going and he says the stuff/pills I'm taking for it seems to be working.


Most people when it comes to eating are just lazy bastards lol. I eat more strict than everyone I know, but I still have 2-3 cheat meals a week. When I eat sugary crap I actually get sick to my stomach within a few hours. It tastes good, but it makes me nauseous. Healthy food just tasts better to me now. I prefer vegetables over say a snickers bar.

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hit4me

Florida, USA

entsminger wrote:
HeavyHitter32 wrote:
Every medication does or can have side effects. Diet and exercise should be used as a first approach although most people are not disciplined enough with either, hence, medication becomes a bigger factor for them.

If I recall, statins are also anti-inflammatory which plays a key role in heart disease. (Side note: everyone over 40 should know their C-Reactive Protein number in addition to lipids and glucose.)

==Scott==
Drugs are always easier. A co worker has this acid reflux stuff and it's basically from eating poorly and he knows it. He comes in yesterday with his MacDonald's and I said hows the reflux going and he says the stuff/pills I'm taking for it seems to be working.








I agree with what you said....but when you eat healthy, exercise (weight training and cardio) and have a family history of cholesterol and heart disease, then statins may help prevention....I hope
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