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John Little Wrong on Cardio ?
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ATP 4 Vitality

Average Al wrote:


But if my original point is correct, then people who just walk are still doing ZERO cardio. It isn't intense enough to provoke many of the adaptations that cardio is supposed to provide.



I will let you concentrate on putting round pegs in round holes and square pegs ....etc.


Brisk walking for deconditioned trainees will cause the breathing rate to increase. Walking up a gradient will further increase breathing rates.

The breathing rate increases due to ATP usage, and the Kreb cycle utilizing O2 to efficiently make ATP for energy utilization

When the breathing increases, the Kreb cycle has cranked up
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hit4me

Florida, USA

ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
hit4me wrote:
ATP 4 Vitality wrote:


1. would you consider training for a 5k 3x/week a good way to raise my VT1 level.



No



2. I have been following darden's carb rich plan and I know it works, I just can't seem to stay consistent with it (I need to be more disciplined)

Get a training partner who holds you accountable.

Keep a log with accurate records!

I personally think Dr. Darden should revise his dietary recommendations to include more carbohydrates .... at least 80 percent and no more than 10 percent fats.


any suggestions on what to do to raise my VT1 level?
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Average Al

ATP 4 Vitality wrote:


I will let you concentrate on putting round pegs in round holes and square pegs ....etc.




OK. My mistake.

I thought you were the guy who was concerned about classifying exercise into the buckets of cardio and not-cardio (i.e., strength training), and then slaying (figuratively speaking) anyone who didn't recommend exercises in the cardio category....
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ATP 4 Vitality

Chris H wrote:
ATP 4 Vitality wrote:


May i ask what fats if any do you recommend or use in your diet or when cooking ?



Less than 10 percent


https://www.nature.com/...1374-018-0038-3
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ATP 4 Vitality

hit4me wrote:
ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
hit4me wrote:
ATP 4 Vitality wrote:


1. would you consider training for a 5k 3x/week a good way to raise my VT1 level.



No



2. I have been following darden's carb rich plan and I know it works, I just can't seem to stay consistent with it (I need to be more disciplined)

Get a training partner who holds you accountable.

Keep a log with accurate records!

I personally think Dr. Darden should revise his dietary recommendations to include more carbohydrates .... at least 80 percent and no more than 10 percent fats.

any suggestions on what to do to raise my VT1 level?


Learn what Ventilatory Threshold 1 is, and, is not!

Learn the Kreb cycle, backwards and forwards.

Learn what your heart rate is, at VT1, record this.

Do intervals to fit your CV needs
90 percent of the time slightly below VT1
10 percent at or slightly above VT1

Meet YOUR needs

As your conditioning improves your heart rate will increase where VT1 occurs

The higher the heart rate of VT1 occurrence the higher the percentage of fat burn. This is because the body is meeting O2 demands and the Kreb cycle has sufficient O2 for oxidation of fat. If not enough O2 is present during more intense muscular contractions, anaerobic glycolysis occurs in the fast twitch muscle fibers causing stored glycogen burning and thus slowing recovery.

Eat your carbs and do your cardio.



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Average Al

ATP 4 Vitality wrote:

Learn what Ventilatory Threshold 1 is, and, is not!



Perhaps you should state what you think it is, because the explanations I find at different web sites don't always seem consistent.




Learn the Kreb cycle, backwards and forwards.



Why? How will a detailed knowledge of the chemistry of the cycle inform your training decisions?



Learn what your heart rate is, at VT1, record this.



Doesn't this require rather specialized equipment to measure precisely?




Do intervals to fit your CV needs
90 percent of the time slightly below VT1
10 percent at or slightly above VT1



Those seem like low targets for interval work.

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ATP 4 Vitality

Average Al wrote:
ATP 4 Vitality wrote:

Learn what Ventilatory Threshold 1 is, and, is not!



Perhaps you should state what you think it is, because the explanations I find at different web sites don't always seem consistent.



My explanation is not the gold standard.
Hit4me is capable enough to figure this out!






Learn the Kreb cycle, backwards and forwards.



Why? How will a detailed knowledge of the chemistry of the cycle inform your training decisions?



This will give one the scientific insight of O2, ATP, glucose, role in energy production, and the WHY of HR ^ and breathing rate ^. No need to be ignorant when McGuff starts misrepresenting cardiovascular conditioning with the false reasoning of Global Metabolic Conditioning.


Learn what your heart rate is, at VT1, record this.



Doesn't this require rather specialized equipment to measure precisely?



A second hand watch and the ability to count, pencil and paper




Do intervals to fit your CV needs
90 percent of the time slightly below VT1
10 percent at or slightly above VT1



Those seem like low targets for interval work.



We are all ears!
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Average Al

ATP 4 Vitality wrote:

Learn the Kreb cycle, backwards and forwards.

Why? How will a detailed knowledge of the chemistry of the cycle inform your training decisions?

This will give one the scientific insight of O2, ATP, glucose, role in energy production, and the WHY of HR ^ and breathing rate ^. No need to be ignorant when McGuff starts misrepresenting cardiovascular conditioning with the false reasoning of Global Metabolic Conditioning.



By all means satisfy your curiosity about why and how something works. But how do you use this knowledge to adjust training variables like intensity or pace, and duration? In the end, aren't you just going to monitor heart rate and perceived exertion, and try to match established targets for training intensity?



Learn what your heart rate is, at VT1, record this.

Doesn't this require rather specialized equipment to measure precisely?



A second hand watch and the ability to count, pencil and paper



OK. I assume you are referring to a field test based on rate of perceived exertion, or a talking test, as a way of estimating VT1 and VT2. I don't believe that is considered a measurement (as in the case of a scientific study where the results will be published). How precise are such estimates likely to be?



Do intervals to fit your CV needs
90 percent of the time slightly below VT1
10 percent at or slightly above VT1



Those seem like low targets for interval work.



We are all ears!


Intervals are typically described as a hard (near maximum) effort alternated with easy effort or complete rest.

I've read that VT1 represents a pace that you can sustain for 1 to 2 hours, so it is below what you could produce for a maximum effort of short duration.

If your intervals are alternating between just above and just below VT1, it doesn't seem that you are pushing yourself as hard as you could, and you aren't resting that much in the rest interval. I don't see the point. It doesn't sound much different than steady state training at the same intensity.

Perhaps your original post was poorly written?

Maybe you meant to say: do intervals (in some unspecified way), and then do a bunch of steady state training (amount unspecified) according to the last two guidelines?


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ATP 4 Vitality

Average Al wrote:
ATP 4 Vitality wrote:

Learn the Kreb cycle, backwards and forwards.

Why? How will a detailed knowledge of the chemistry of the cycle inform your training decisions?

This will give one the scientific insight of O2, ATP, glucose, role in energy production, and the WHY of HR ^ and breathing rate ^. No need to be ignorant when McGuff starts misrepresenting cardiovascular conditioning with the false reasoning of Global Metabolic Conditioning.



By all means satisfy your curiosity about why and how something works. But how do you use this knowledge to adjust training variables like intensity or pace, and duration? In the end, aren't you just going to monitor heart rate and perceived exertion, and try to match established targets for training intensity?



Yes, precisely


Learn what your heart rate is, at VT1, record this.

Doesn't this require rather specialized equipment to measure precisely?



A second hand watch and the ability to count, pencil and paper



OK. I assume you are referring to a field test based on rate of perceived exertion, or a talking test, as a way of estimating VT1 and VT2. I don't believe that is considered a measurement (as in the case of a scientific study where the results will be published). How precise are such estimates likely to be?



Good enough to show an improvement. VO2 Max testing, and other tests are still the standards. VO2 Max can be calculated also. I will leave these testing processes for the scientists, of which, McGuff and Little are not qualified to conduct. The talk test is a direct test of YOUR body function.



Do intervals to fit your CV needs
90 percent of the time slightly below VT1
10 percent at or slightly above VT1



Those seem like low targets for interval work.



We are all ears!

Intervals are typically described as a hard (near maximum) effort alternated with easy effort or complete rest.

I've read that VT1 represents a pace that you can sustain for 1 to 2 hours, so it is below what you could produce for a maximum effort of short duration.

If your intervals are alternating between just above and just below VT1, it doesn't seem that you are pushing yourself as hard as you could, and you aren't resting that much in the rest interval. I don't see the point. It doesn't sound much different than steady state training at the same intensity.

Perhaps your original post was poorly written?

Maybe you meant to say: do intervals (in some unspecified way), and then do a bunch of steady state training (amount unspecified) according to the last two guidelines?




Sorry! It is quite likely that my post was poorly written.. I try to improve in proofreading, but the need is constant and continuous.
Cardiovascular conditioning training needs should be individually met. I believe a baseline CV level needs maintained, ie. base building! This requires the majority of the training volume with only enough above VT1 activity to slightly improve baseline HR where VT1 occurs. Quite simple actually! BTW, I use a Polar chest strap AND a Mio Alpha HR watch with an Assault bike. Both HR monitors are quite accurate and have matching measurable results. OMG, could Little be wrong?
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Average Al

ATP 4 Vitality wrote:

Cardiovascular conditioning training needs should be individually met.



Agreed.




I believe a baseline CV level needs maintained, ie. base building! This requires the majority of the training volume with only enough above VT1 activity to slightly improve baseline HR where VT1 occurs.


By base building, I assume you mean something like Maffetone's training methods?

One question I've never gotten an answer on: How specific or general are the adaptations involved with aerobic base building? If you follow Maffetone's training program, build up a good base by running, how much of that would carry over to swimming, or cycling, or anything else?

Same question with regard to training to increase VT1: I can see if you did a running program to improve VT1, it would help you to compete better at running. But what about the carry over to other endurance sports? Has that ever been studied?

Also , is there any demonstrated health benefit for improving VT1, or is it just for sports performance?

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ATP 4 Vitality

Average Al wrote:
ATP 4 Vitality wrote:

Cardiovascular conditioning training needs should be individually met.



Agreed.




I believe a baseline CV level needs maintained, ie. base building! This requires the majority of the training volume with only enough above VT1 activity to slightly improve baseline HR where VT1 occurs.

By base building, I assume you mean something like Maffetone's training methods?



Perhaps, although being of a contrarian nature, I do not fully agree with his fitness approaches nor many others. Maffetone approach is needlessly complex, and like you he attempts to categorize subject matter needlessly. I find this incredibly boring!




One question I've never gotten an answer on: How specific or general are the adaptations involved with aerobic base building? If you follow Maffetone's training program, build up a good base by running, how much of that would carry over to swimming, or cycling, or anything else?



Needless categorization! Aerobic training has been well studied and central positive vascular adaptations have been documented. Only a few stupid HiT authors deny this! Of course these positive vascular adaptations would transfer to other sports, but you would still need to cycle to get good at cycling. This is what the Hypocrite gets wrong!


Same question with regard to training to increase VT1: I can see if you did a running program to improve VT1, it would help you to compete better at running. But what about the carry over to other endurance sports? Has that ever been studied?


Same answer as above! Aerobics are well studied. Only HiTers do not read this because McGuff states cardio does not exist. In 5 years he will discover cardio and relate this discovery to all misled HiTers.



Also , is there any demonstrated health benefit for improving VT1, or is it just for sports performance?



Walking up stairs without fighting breathlessness! Athletes will still be running 100 years from now!
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ATP 4 Vitality

A while back, in a North Carolina college gymnasium during a leg workout, I happened upon the most pronounced pump I have ever experienced. I did several heavy sets (pre - Nautilus) of barbell squats followed by more heavy sets of hack squats. I never forgot this skin - tightening effect that made walking difficult while going back to the dormitory that day.

Arnold Schwarzenegger loved the pump effect! Also, Arthur Jones stated:

Quote

Secondly, as long as your training program remains unchanged, your pumped measurements will clearly indicate future growth in advance; if your upper arm normally pumps only one-half inch during a workout, and then shows an increase of three-quarters of an inch as a result of the same type of workout, this is a clear indication that your arm will grow during the following forty-eight hours.
The ability to pump a muscle to a particular size precedes the growth of a muscle to the normal size that would usually be required for the pumped measurement indicated.

End quote


The pump is all about blood flow and congestion. The pump increases blood flow temporarily and causes capillary growth. All is well.
Cardiovascular conditioning increases overall blood flow and does not lead to the pumping effect. Furthermore, nitric oxide production is increased during cardio. The nitric oxide improves blood flow and improves blood vessel endothelial cells function. This is also heart healthy.

Drinking lots of water along with glycogen uptake into the muscles during workouts increases vascularity. It is well documented how dietary oils and fats decrease blood vessel flow mediated dilation and also harms the blood vessel endothelial cells that provide nitric oxide. Can you afford Viagra?

Finally, moderate amounts of Omega 3 and 6 can decrease the blood coagulation cascade system. This promotes blood flow. It has been said you are as young as your blood vessels. I say you do not want heart disease, stroke, ED, and blood clotting problems.


Pump it up!

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Chris H

ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
A while back, in a North Carolina college gymnasium during a leg workout, I happened upon the most pronounced pump I have ever experienced. I did several heavy sets (pre - Nautilus) of barbell squats followed by more heavy sets of hack squats. I never forgot this skin - tightening effect that made walking difficult while going back to the dormitory that day.

Arnold Schwarzenegger loved the pump effect! Also, Arthur Jones stated:

Quote

Secondly, as long as your training program remains unchanged, your pumped measurements will clearly indicate future growth in advance; if your upper arm normally pumps only one-half inch during a workout, and then shows an increase of three-quarters of an inch as a result of the same type of workout, this is a clear indication that your arm will grow during the following forty-eight hours.
The ability to pump a muscle to a particular size precedes the growth of a muscle to the normal size that would usually be required for the pumped measurement indicated.

End quote


The pump is all about blood flow and congestion. The pump increases blood flow temporarily and causes capillary growth. All is well.
Cardiovascular conditioning increases overall blood flow and does not lead to the pumping effect. Furthermore, nitric oxide production is increased during cardio. The nitric oxide improves blood flow and improves blood vessel endothelial cells function. This is also heart healthy.

Drinking lots of water along with glycogen uptake into the muscles during workouts increases vascularity. It is well documented how dietary oils and fats decrease blood vessel flow mediated dilation and also harms the blood vessel endothelial cells that provide nitric oxide. Can you afford Viagra?

Finally, moderate amounts of Omega 3 and 6 can decrease the blood coagulation cascade system. This promotes blood flow. It has been said you are as young as your blood vessels. I say you do not want heart disease, stroke, ED, and blood clotting problems.


Pump it up!


Love this post

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ATP 4 Vitality

Chris H wrote:
ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
A while back, in a North Carolina college gymnasium during a leg workout, I happened upon the most pronounced pump I have ever experienced. I did several heavy sets (pre - Nautilus) of barbell squats followed by more heavy sets of hack squats. I never forgot this skin - tightening effect that made walking difficult while going back to the dormitory that day.

Arnold Schwarzenegger loved the pump effect! Also, Arthur Jones stated:

Quote

Secondly, as long as your training program remains unchanged, your pumped measurements will clearly indicate future growth in advance; if your upper arm normally pumps only one-half inch during a workout, and then shows an increase of three-quarters of an inch as a result of the same type of workout, this is a clear indication that your arm will grow during the following forty-eight hours.
The ability to pump a muscle to a particular size precedes the growth of a muscle to the normal size that would usually be required for the pumped measurement indicated.

End quote


The pump is all about blood flow and congestion. The pump increases blood flow temporarily and causes capillary growth. All is well.
Cardiovascular conditioning increases overall blood flow and does not lead to the pumping effect. Furthermore, nitric oxide production is increased during cardio. The nitric oxide improves blood flow and improves blood vessel endothelial cells function. This is also heart healthy.

Drinking lots of water along with glycogen uptake into the muscles during workouts increases vascularity. It is well documented how dietary oils and fats decrease blood vessel flow mediated dilation and also harms the blood vessel endothelial cells that provide nitric oxide. Can you afford Viagra?

Finally, moderate amounts of Omega 3 and 6 can decrease the blood coagulation cascade system. This promotes blood flow. It has been said you are as young as your blood vessels. I say you do not want heart disease, stroke, ED, and blood clotting problems.


Pump it up!


Love this post



Cardiovascular disease is multifactorial. Even the experts disagree. Humility is needed and is in short supply amongst scientists. Which is worse, scientists, politicians, or HiTers? They want NO answers. Be wary of simple dogmatic answers!
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ptcrusader

Mens Health Resource has some interesting comments on the benefits of sex as it pertains to heart disease. "Sexual intercourse is good for your heart because it relieves stress and boosts the immune system. Sexual intercourse is another form of physical activity, similar to a 20 minute brisk walk."

If correct, could this lead to reclassification of brothels as health care clinics covered by insurance?

Perhaps Mark, as a pharmacist, could give a little insight on the relationship between diuretics and beta-blockers as they pertain to erectile dysfunction.
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Frank Scott

I don't know anything about sex, I"m married
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epdavis7

I remember being in sixth grade at the lunchroom. When we took our dishes back on the way out the lady washing dishes yelled at me because I hadn't eaten my green beans. She yelled at me "whatsamatta with you not eating your green beans, don't you know they'll put lead in your pencil." Kind of creepy now that I think about it. She was almost 80 (or so it seemed at the time).
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ATP 4 Vitality

ptcrusader wrote:

Perhaps Mark, as a pharmacist, could give a little insight on the relationship between diuretics and beta-blockers as they pertain to erectile dysfunction.


It is Marc.

https://www.webmd.com/...cation-and-ed#1



Get good at cardio for stamina
Decrease fat intake
Increase carbs and fiber
Do standing hip thrusts with resistance bands (use your imagination) do not tell McGuff you use RBs

Kettlebell swings with my special momentum KB with revolving handle, chain and loading pin are awesome for snappy hip thrusts and conditioning.

https://m.youtube.com/...h?v=_EpibfcnBA0
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Nwlifter

this is interesting
https://www.cbc.ca/...-jIy-aaWwz0T8Ic

The Tsimane living in the Amazon have the lowest reported levels of age-related hardening of the arteries in the world, say researchers who encourage Westerners to learn from these Bolivian rainforest inhabitants.

Amazon men in their 80s have the arteries of Americans in their 50s



Lancet study shows diet low on processed carbs, sugar, cholesterol, while active living boosts heart health
Amina Zafar ? CBC News
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epdavis7

ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
Do standing hip thrusts with resistance bands (use your imagination)

This is just weird. Do you do these in the nude? Are you staring at pictures of Doug McGuff and John Little while you do them?
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