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John Little Wrong on Cardio ?
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1958

Texas, USA

Lightweight powerlifter
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Nwlifter

epdavis7 wrote:
NWLifter,

Usually the powerlifters that get winded are the Super Heavies. The lower weight class guys appear very fit and sometimes have muscularity to match a bodybuilder. I think a combination of being overweight and sometimes PEDs contributes to this. They are one trick ponies at the extreme end of the strength curve. I watched a Super Heavy train squats one time and he took forever (sometimes almost 10 minutes) between sets ie wrapping and unwrapping his knees, BSing with his buddies etc. At that weight class added weight will allow you to lift more even if its just fat because of the added leverage. Strong for sure, but not fit (and probably not healthy) at all.


True on all that...
But I guess their workouts sure aren't helping their cardio function, I mean man, regular sedentary people can walk up some stairs and not be panting lol


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entsminger

Virginia, USA

==Scott ==
What I find interesting is all the fuss about doing or not doing cardio. I love doing HIT type workouts and cardio workouts like biking , swimming or rowing on a concept 2 rower. As I love exercising so much I?m always wishing I could do more exercise stuff , not less. I?d workout every day if I could but of course my body would rebel. Even though I find it takes me several days to recover from a workout I find working out only once or twice a week an eternity to wait for the next workout so adding in some cardio between the workouts sort of playcates my desire to workout more and it certainly doesn?t interfere with the recovery from workouts, if anything I find the cardio work helps my recovery and I feel in much better shape when I do it.
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Average Al

epdavis7 wrote:
I have read Gibala also. Is there a specific point of contention between the Huffington post article and what he has stated in his book (I realize an article is a synopsis of his book)? I might have missed something and I am open to having that pointed out. I've read so many books over the years and I am human and can't remember everything.


Not that I know of. However, I have not really compared the article to the book in great detail.

My main reason for using the article quotes is that others can easily verify the source, whereas if I quote from the book, only people who have the book can check the context (and I'd have to do a lot more typing).

The main point of my *inflammatory post* (seriously?) was to address the sweeping and definitive statement about the worthlessness of weight based circuits for cardio. I wanted to highlight that another cardio advocate, an academic expert who ATP cites regularly, is not so negative about that approach. Nothing more profound was intended.



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Average Al

ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
hit4me wrote:
ATP 4 Vitality wrote:


you speak out against it, when Dr. Darden, Arthur Jones, Dr. Wayne Wescott and other real experts have proven otherwise

They have not proved circuit weight training improved cardiovascular conditioning especially VO2 max



They haven't, but others have shown that resistance training can improve VO2 max:

https://www.researchgate.net/..._older_subjects

The important factor is how deconditioned you are when you start.

If you are older and deconditioned, regular strength training alone will improve VO2 max, to a point.

People with higher levels of aerobic fitness will find that RT, RT circuits, or even moderate intensity traditional cardio won't yield much in the way of further improvement, because VO2 is only modestly trainable. Genetics have a lot to say about whether you have a high or low value.

So how much VO2 max is enough? If you have a high value due to good genetics, do you even need to do cardio? If you have a low value due to poor genetics, does cardio do you any good?
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epdavis7

If your knee?s don?t freeze
and your bladder don?t splatter
up the dose cause it don?t matter
Die Big
Die Young
Dianabol!
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hit4me

Florida, USA

Nwlifter wrote:
epdavis7 wrote:
NWLifter,

Usually the powerlifters that get winded are the Super Heavies. The lower weight class guys appear very fit and sometimes have muscularity to match a bodybuilder. I think a combination of being overweight and sometimes PEDs contributes to this. They are one trick ponies at the extreme end of the strength curve. I watched a Super Heavy train squats one time and he took forever (sometimes almost 10 minutes) between sets ie wrapping and unwrapping his knees, BSing with his buddies etc. At that weight class added weight will allow you to lift more even if its just fat because of the added leverage. Strong for sure, but not fit (and probably not healthy) at all.

True on all that...
But I guess their workouts sure aren't helping their cardio function, I mean man, regular sedentary people can walk up some stairs and not be panting lol




the reason they are panting is because they are too heavy....same thing with heavy bodybuilders and overweight individuals....it would be like a 150 man doing a farmers walk carrying 100 pound dumbbells, he is out of breath and panting

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epdavis7

Genetics ultimately win out in improving our particular genotype. I can get stronger, but I?ve always been better at feats of muscular endurance. I was never a great bench presser, but when in the military I got quite good at doing very high rep pushups, pull-ups etc. I could do 20 bodyweight pull-ups, but was crap at weighted pull-ups with heavier weights. VO2 Max is probably the same way.
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epdavis7

I wasted so much time in my younger years. Schwarzenegger type routines, Jones type routines, Mentzer type routines etc. The end result for me is usually about the same. That being the case I search for the minimal effective dose and use the saved time to pursue recreational activities I excel at and enjoy. Would be nice to look like Mentzer, but ain?t happening for me....and that?s ok.
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epdavis7

Similar to how I combine HIT with running.

http://smartstrengthaustin.com/...ace-prep-guide/
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1958

Texas, USA

I grew up before "aerobics." I'm now 61 years old.No one ever told me to run or walk or row or bicycle for health.I simply went to the gym three times a week and lifted weights.When work got in the way I went twice a week and lifted weights.When space at the gym was created for stationary bikes,I scoffed and never used one.When a wall was knocked out of the gym and extra space was created for "aerobics ," I cancelled my membership. I've been in my garage ever since,doing squats,deadlifts,overhead presses,chin ups,etc...Fuck "aerobics!"
My doctor marvels at my supreme outer/inner fitness.
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Keyser S?

entsminger wrote:

You know Landau, there are times on here where you seem to make good sense



You need to get more sleep.
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epdavis7

My best friend is 72 and the only exercise he has ever done is hard physical labor. He helped me remodel a bathroom and put hardwood floors throughout the house. He damn near killed me. When I tell him I?m going for a run, he laughs. He asks ?Why, is something chasing you.??
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

== Scott==
Ha ha , zzzzzzz Actually Landau does have some good stuff to say , just every now and then he gets hard to follow . He?s not right on everything but who on here is??
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

1958 wrote:
I grew up before "aerobics." I'm now 61 years old.No one ever told me to run or walk or row or bicycle for health.I simply went to the gym three times a week and lifted weights.When work got in the way I went twice a week and lifted weights.When space at the gym was created for stationary bikes,I scoffed and never used one.When a wall was knocked out of the gym and extra space was created for "aerobics ," I cancelled my membership. I've been in my garage ever since,doing squats,deadlifts,overhead presses,chin ups,etc...Fuck "aerobics!"
My doctor marvels at my supreme outer/inner fitness.


== Scott ===
People were running and doing aerobics or cardiovascular exercise long before you were born . If you don?t like aerobics fine, don?t do it. Why berate an activity many of us feel is important and enjoy doing .
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Keyser S?

entsminger wrote:
== Scott==
Ha ha , zzzzzzz Actually Landau does have some good stuff to say , just every now and then he gets hard to follow . He?s not right on everything but who on here is??


I think a lot of people on here need to realise that they are incredibly disagreeable at a subconscious level. Which is ultimately no better than being extremely agreeable (a sheep).

In fact it's worse because it requires much more research time and the result is no more objective.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

epdavis7 wrote:
My best friend is 72 and the only exercise he has ever done is hard physical labor. He helped me remodel a bathroom and put hardwood floors throughout the house. He damn near killed me. When I tell him I?m going for a run, he laughs. He asks ?Why, is something chasing you.??


== Scott ==
I?m sure if you said you were going to lift weights he?d say why, there?s plenty of dirt to shovel here!
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Nwlifter

hit4me wrote:
Nwlifter wrote:
epdavis7 wrote:
NWLifter,

Usually the powerlifters that get winded are the Super Heavies. The lower weight class guys appear very fit and sometimes have muscularity to match a bodybuilder. I think a combination of being overweight and sometimes PEDs contributes to this. They are one trick ponies at the extreme end of the strength curve. I watched a Super Heavy train squats one time and he took forever (sometimes almost 10 minutes) between sets ie wrapping and unwrapping his knees, BSing with his buddies etc. At that weight class added weight will allow you to lift more even if its just fat because of the added leverage. Strong for sure, but not fit (and probably not healthy) at all.

True on all that...
But I guess their workouts sure aren't helping their cardio function, I mean man, regular sedentary people can walk up some stairs and not be panting lol




the reason they are panting is because they are too heavy....same thing with heavy bodybuilders and overweight individuals....it would be like a 150 man doing a farmers walk carrying 100 pound dumbbells, he is out of breath and panting



And their cardio fitness is WAY below the level to support their bodyweight. I've known some just plain 'overweight' people who even though are quite heavy, they have great fitness. They can ride bikes, play tennis, all that.
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epdavis7

Did a ten mile run today. Beautiful but chilly day for a run. Took the pooches on a power walk for a cooldown and played fetch for awhile. Feels good to be active.
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epdavis7

entsminger wrote:
epdavis7 wrote:
My best friend is 72 and the only exercise he has ever done is hard physical labor. He helped me remodel a bathroom and put hardwood floors throughout the house. He damn near killed me. When I tell him I?m going for a run, he laughs. He asks ?Why, is something chasing you.??

== Scott ==
I?m sure if you said you were going to lift weights he?d say why, there?s plenty of dirt to shovel here!


No doubt. He?s still got a grip like a pair of pliers. Last weekend we picked up 50 bails of hay and put them in a trailer to take to his house out in the country. He was working as hard as I was.

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epdavis7

Nwlifter wrote:
hit4me wrote:
Nwlifter wrote:
epdavis7 wrote:
NWLifter,

Usually the powerlifters that get winded are the Super Heavies. The lower weight class guys appear very fit and sometimes have muscularity to match a bodybuilder. I think a combination of being overweight and sometimes PEDs contributes to this. They are one trick ponies at the extreme end of the strength curve. I watched a Super Heavy train squats one time and he took forever (sometimes almost 10 minutes) between sets ie wrapping and unwrapping his knees, BSing with his buddies etc. At that weight class added weight will allow you to lift more even if its just fat because of the added leverage. Strong for sure, but not fit (and probably not healthy) at all.

True on all that...
But I guess their workouts sure aren't helping their cardio function, I mean man, regular sedentary people can walk up some stairs and not be panting lol




the reason they are panting is because they are too heavy....same thing with heavy bodybuilders and overweight individuals....it would be like a 150 man doing a farmers walk carrying 100 pound dumbbells, he is out of breath and panting



And their cardio fitness is WAY below the level to support their bodyweight. I've known some just plain 'overweight' people who even though are quite heavy, they have great fitness. They can ride bikes, play tennis, all that.


Appearences are deceiving some times. I?ve seen some hefty folks finish the races I?ve run...sometimes in front of me lol.

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ATP 4 Vitality

Average Al wrote:
epdavis7 wrote:

the sweeping and definitive statement about the worthlessness of weight based circuits for cardio.


No such statements by myself were made. On the other hand, resistance training provides lower oxygen consumption values somewhere between 39% to 51.5% of VO2 max.

Dr. Gibala has proposed a 1 minute workout. Richard Metcalf has proposed REHIT, which is something that I like and have used when I tried to improve my poor cardiovascular conditioning from long time HIT practice. These protocols can be read online. They are not circuit training.

Gibala does daily 30 minute exercise. He alternates body-weight resistance training exercises, AND, cycling, BOTH performed in an interval manner. So much for the Huffy Post.

Robert Hickson has a more time involved cardiovascular conditioning program that produces a remarkable rate of performance improvement of cardiorespiratory fitness.

The minimal level of fitness may be explained by Ulrik Wisloff. He explains how a single hard weekly bout of HIIT produces very good results. Or you can sit on the couch and eat fried twinkies, ala Landau, and take your chances.


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entsminger

Virginia, USA

epdavis7 wrote:
entsminger wrote:
epdavis7 wrote:
My best friend is 72 and the only exercise he has ever done is hard physical labor. He helped me remodel a bathroom and put hardwood floors throughout the house. He damn near killed me. When I tell him I?m going for a run, he laughs. He asks ?Why, is something chasing you.??

== Scott ==
I?m sure if you said you were going to lift weights he?d say why, there?s plenty of dirt to shovel here!

No doubt. He?s still got a grip like a pair of pliers. Last weekend we picked up 50 bails of hay and put them in a trailer to take to his house out in the country. He was working as hard as I was.



==Scott==
It is sort of intimidating when you come upon a person who actually "works" for a living like a farmer or mechanic. We have relatives in Minnesota and it's quite eye opening when you meet these fellows who like your friend who throws hay bails around like nothing. One such relative was a big guy like Hoss Cartwright but no fat. As a kid he worked the farm throwing two hay bails at a time onto the wagon, etc. When the football coach saw this kid he scooped him up and in no time he was throwing tacklers around like bowling pins. His hands were big and strong with grips like a vice form all the labor.I remember feeling very wimpy around him and was embarrassed when I told him I lifted weights. I knew he was thinking what's with this weights crap? Just do some real work!
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epdavis7

When is Grant D going to show up lol? I've always thought he was someones alias and was just trolling for a laugh.
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epdavis7

No sitting on the couch and eating Fried Twinkies for me lol. I'm always going to be active and eat sensibly. I follow an 80/20 rule on eating. 80 percent of the time I eat meat, vegetables, fruit and nuts only and drink black coffee and water. When I feel like having a piece of pizza or a hotdog or icecream occasionally I do. I'll even drink a diet coke. The key word being occasionally (20% of the time). I do HIT, but its not the only thing I do. Some is for health and some is for leisure/pleasure. I'm not a big fan of supplements either. In the winter I take D3. I do take fish oil, thats it. I used to take upwards of 20+ supplements a day, but just figured out I was making expensive piss lol.
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