MB Madaera
Lost 31.7 lbs fat
Built 11.7 lbs muscle


Chris Madaera
Built 9 lbs muscle


Keelan Parham
Lost 30 lbs fat
Built 4 lbs muscle


Bob Marchesello
Lost 23.55 lbs fat
Built 8.55 lbs muscle


Jeff Turner
Lost 25.5 lbs fat


Jeanenne Darden
Lost 26 lbs fat
Built 3 lbs muscle


Ted Tucker
Lost 41 lbs fat
Built 4 lbs muscle

 
 

Determine the Length of Your Workouts

Evaluate Your Progress

Keep Warm-Up in Perspective


ARCHIVES >>

"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

Mission Statement

H.I.T. Acceptable Use Policy

Privacy Policy

Credits

LOG IN FORUM MAIN REGISTER SEARCH
Who Does Martial Arts Training?
First | Prev | 1 | 2 | 3
Author
Rating
Options

plebian

oldbutsteady wrote:
plebian,

Do you think having to follow match rules and fair play have handicapped you in the real world?

OBS



Not really, because how much handicapping can one really do to a left hook to the jaw? or a double leg takedown?

There are some contrivances and trends i dont like; for example I have no interest in doing competitive BJJ because i think most of the realism has been removed in favor of a certain aesthetic, for example, despite the fact a slam can completely change the way a fight is going in an instant or even end it, its now a disqualification in BJJ. That and the departure of bjj from judo has encouraged way too much ground fighting IMO. Being an expert grappler is fantastic in a 1 v 1 situation, but putting yourself on your back (or even top control, really) with multiple opponents and no escape route will never not be a bad idea to me. In this respect, i feel Judo's focus on throws and trips from the standing position and minimal ground fighting is more realistic. Other obvious ones are like boxing not allowing shoving or fighting from the clinch.

The lack of things like gouges and biting I think are really overstated by the RSD movement that became popularized in the 90s. The last real world fight i was in probably some 7 or 8 years ago, went to the ground and when i got on top and was trying to control my man (at the time i had very little grappling experience, but still remembered enough to sweep the guy off of me and get into full mount) my hand rode up his face and he bit down into my hand HARD. And yeah it hurt like hell but the net result was me just punching him in the face over and over until he released. His face and brain was going to give in a lot earlier than my hand was, after all.

Similarly I see a lot of "anti grapplers" purporting the use of eye and gonad gouging to get out of chokes and what not. This is complete fantasy, many chokes once they're on you have maybe a few seconds to do something about it, and that time is better spent on deploying the proper techniques to mitigate or escape the choke than it is flailing around looking for something soft. The Rear Naked Choke for example, if you reached up searching for his eyes with your hand, it is trivial for him to duck his head and apply even more pressure faster, and then its nighty night.

And the piece de resistance, the good old hit em in the family jewels... is perhaps the most overrated fighting technique in the history of the world. We men learn to make a big pantomime about getting hit in the balls when we're young, and its mostly theatre for others; indeed getting hit in the balls is never pleasant, sometimes even sickening, but its rarely ever immediately disabling. So we teach women to kick male attackers in the balls, works in the dojo/gym with a compliant partner.... what actually happens in reality? the guy she just kicked in the nuts goes UGH and then retaliates by beating the shit out of her.

Obviously the argument against "match fighting" or "sport fighting" comes down to time to mentally prepare and all that, as well as having a defined set of variables, but this has always been a weak argument to me. It always seems to come back to rest on the concept of an "overwhelming ambush" in which case the only actual defense is to not be caught in one in the first place. They teach react to ambush drills to infantry soldiers. I don't know how many of them survive well-laid ambushes for real.
Open User Options Menu

plebian

sirloin wrote:
plebian wrote:
don was drunk as a skunk in that video. and the guy he is getting into it with is a former boxer.

its not "prob could" its "almost always could". Guys who dont fight are completely delusional about their abilities and the "ring fighters cant fight for ~REAL IN THE STREETS~" has been a coping mechanism for the insecurity they seem to stimulate in men longer than ive been alive.

This is what it usually looks like with a trained fighter vs "street" tough guys

https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=_8C2hEtYzq0
https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=OQfcq-1k5So
https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=K4HlDjkwwSs
https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=UcPB23jFuGc
https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=sklYfD4KZ0g
https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=xRbCHA5YTi8
https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=yf59dG15q_I



These over confident MMA fighters / thugs are the delusional ones whom think their above the law, the Frye video illustrates this perfectly. How many times has that racist MMA big mouth poster boy strut in and out of court in recent years?

Watched few of those videos, they where what the likes of Geoff Thompson call "match fights". Most assaults (not fights) are "ambush attacks" from conversational range. Ive witnessed this many times over.
The video where the guy reacts to his girlfriend being hit seems a bit set up imo, he hits them both several times and both attacks get right back up and follow them, at that point the video cuts out, doesnt pass the smell test for me.






you keep bringing up geoff thompson, and for me its ironic, i think you misinterpreted him. I have several of his books. When thompson was talking about "match fighters" or "sport fighters" he was speaking in particular context of the competitive karate scene that was so popular during his time as a young man. Karate which had become infamously useless because of the manner in which it was trained.

thompson is certainly not anti martial arts: he has spent most of his life training in and training others in boxing, sambo and greco-roman wrestling. Written several books on them in fact (i have his sambo book, "the take downs and throws of Sombo"). In "watch my back" he has a passage expressing admiration for his boxer friend's ability to slip/dodge punches and counter with knock out blows on the floor in the club, such ability that the "reality self defense" crowd strangely thinks is impossible to attain (or is a physical "gift" rather than a trained skill) and/or that boxers somehow become magically incapable of performing such feats as soon as there is no referee or gloves. This is, obviously, an absurd belief.

Thompson encouraged study of "pragmatic" arts that are regularly putting their skills to the test. Which is actually why match fighting is useful in the first place: it provides an avenue to test skills against opponents who desperately want to win/dominate you. Obviously, you can nerf competitive avenues with so many rules and regulations in the interest of safety or aesthetics that it eventually ends up being an absurdity which is exactly what happened with competitive karate
Open User Options Menu

epdavis7

plebian wrote:
sirloin wrote:
plebian wrote:
don was drunk as a skunk in that video. and the guy he is getting into it with is a former boxer.

its not "prob could" its "almost always could". Guys who dont fight are completely delusional about their abilities and the "ring fighters cant fight for ~REAL IN THE STREETS~" has been a coping mechanism for the insecurity they seem to stimulate in men longer than ive been alive.

This is what it usually looks like with a trained fighter vs "street" tough guys

https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=_8C2hEtYzq0
https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=OQfcq-1k5So
https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=K4HlDjkwwSs
https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=UcPB23jFuGc
https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=sklYfD4KZ0g
https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=xRbCHA5YTi8
https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=yf59dG15q_I



These over confident MMA fighters / thugs are the delusional ones whom think their above the law, the Frye video illustrates this perfectly. How many times has that racist MMA big mouth poster boy strut in and out of court in recent years?

Watched few of those videos, they where what the likes of Geoff Thompson call "match fights". Most assaults (not fights) are "ambush attacks" from conversational range. Ive witnessed this many times over.
The video where the guy reacts to his girlfriend being hit seems a bit set up imo, he hits them both several times and both attacks get right back up and follow them, at that point the video cuts out, doesnt pass the smell test for me.






you keep bringing up geoff thompson, and for me its ironic, i think you misinterpreted him. I have several of his books. When thompson was talking about "match fighters" or "sport fighters" he was speaking in particular context of the competitive karate scene that was so popular during his time as a young man. Karate which had become infamously useless because of the manner in which it was trained.

thompson is certainly not anti martial arts: he has spent most of his life training in and training others in boxing, sambo and greco-roman wrestling. Written several books on them in fact (i have his sambo book, "the take downs and throws of Sombo"). In "watch my back" he has a passage expressing admiration for his boxer friend's ability to slip/dodge punches and counter with knock out blows on the floor in the club, such ability that the "reality self defense" crowd strangely thinks is impossible to attain (or is a physical "gift" rather than a trained skill) and/or that boxers somehow become magically incapable of performing such feats as soon as there is no referee or gloves. This is, obviously, an absurd belief.

Thompson encouraged study of "pragmatic" arts that are regularly putting their skills to the test. Which is actually why match fighting is useful in the first place: it provides an avenue to test skills against opponents who desperately want to win/dominate you. Obviously, you can nerf competitive avenues with so many rules and regulations in the interest of safety or aesthetics that it eventually ends up being an absurdity which is exactly what happened with competitive karate


Some things I completely agree with you on and some I'm going to agree to disagree. I trained and competed in boxing and judo and wrestling. I even studied traditional judo which has more of a true self defense nature ie making sweeps and throws a little more dangerous by throwing someone on their head instead of back and some basic atemi strikes. Ive even recently been looking at old school bare knuckle boxing which for most is unrealistic unless they condition their hands. Sport/match fighting teaches many useful traits I wholeheartedly agree ie fitness, timing, reflexes etc. Just as there a lot of keyboard RBSD guys, there are a lot guys who wear TAPOUT and UFC shirts but their bodies look like COOKOUT and KFC. Most combat sports don't teach situational awareness from a true self defense aspect as they are facing an opponenet directly in front of them by a prescribed set of rules. Most don't teach the proper handling and usage of firearms, knives, sticks etc and how to defend against them of even possible. Most don't teach about dealing with multiple opponents. Most don't teach escape and evasion, reading people and situations and basic "street smarts." A real "thug" is different from a poser and is going to stack the deck a bit and operate from a position of power. What if the guy who bit you pulled out a boot knife or neck knife? Someone trying to kick your ass or just dominate you is different than someone trying to kill you for real to get what they want ie money, revenge etc.
Open User Options Menu

epdavis7

Provided you condition your hands, I think a good combination would be old school bare knuckle boxing and traditional judo combined with the WWII H2H methods of Fairbairn, Applegate, Sykes, Styers, Cosneck etc. Obviously that includes gun play, stick work, knife work and plain old dirty fighting. Some places even teach situational awareness, reading situations and people and basic street smarts. This is probably one of the most neglected, but most important aspects of self preservation. You can be the best unarmed fighter the world has ever seen, but if you wonder into the wrong neighborhood and shoot your mouth off to the wrong people, you are toast.
Open User Options Menu

sirloin

plebian wrote:
sirloin wrote:
plebian wrote:
don was drunk as a skunk in that video. and the guy he is getting into it with is a former boxer.

its not "prob could" its "almost always could". Guys who dont fight are completely delusional about their abilities and the "ring fighters cant fight for ~REAL IN THE STREETS~" has been a coping mechanism for the insecurity they seem to stimulate in men longer than ive been alive.

This is what it usually looks like with a trained fighter vs "street" tough guys

https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=_8C2hEtYzq0
https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=OQfcq-1k5So
https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=K4HlDjkwwSs
https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=UcPB23jFuGc
https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=sklYfD4KZ0g
https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=xRbCHA5YTi8
https://www.youtube.com/...h?v=yf59dG15q_I



These over confident MMA fighters / thugs are the delusional ones whom think their above the law, the Frye video illustrates this perfectly. How many times has that racist MMA big mouth poster boy strut in and out of court in recent years?

Watched few of those videos, they where what the likes of Geoff Thompson call "match fights". Most assaults (not fights) are "ambush attacks" from conversational range. Ive witnessed this many times over.
The video where the guy reacts to his girlfriend being hit seems a bit set up imo, he hits them both several times and both attacks get right back up and follow them, at that point the video cuts out, doesnt pass the smell test for me.






you keep bringing up geoff thompson, and for me its ironic, i think you misinterpreted him. I have several of his books. When thompson was talking about "match fighters" or "sport fighters" he was speaking in particular context of the competitive karate scene that was so popular during his time as a young man. Karate which had become infamously useless because of the manner in which it was trained.

thompson is certainly not anti martial arts: he has spent most of his life training in and training others in boxing, sambo and greco-roman wrestling. Written several books on them in fact (i have his sambo book, "the take downs and throws of Sombo"). In "watch my back" he has a passage expressing admiration for his boxer friend's ability to slip/dodge punches and counter with knock out blows on the floor in the club, such ability that the "reality self defense" crowd strangely thinks is impossible to attain (or is a physical "gift" rather than a trained skill) and/or that boxers somehow become magically incapable of performing such feats as soon as there is no referee or gloves. This is, obviously, an absurd belief.

Thompson encouraged study of "pragmatic" arts that are regularly putting their skills to the test. Which is actually why match fighting is useful in the first place: it provides an avenue to test skills against opponents who desperately want to win/dominate you. Obviously, you can nerf competitive avenues with so many rules and regulations in the interest of safety or aesthetics that it eventually ends up being an absurdity which is exactly what happened with competitive karate


I attended one of his seminars 20 years ago and also have 20 plus of his books / videos. By "Match fights", he was reffering to when people are aware their was going to be a fight, for example he said, "back in the day, if an argument started in the boozer, one would say to the other, met me outside for a fair dig". But based on what he witnessed thousands of times over, thats not how things happen now (at least not in the UK). Ive witnessed this myself many times.

Most are attacked before they have a chance to even realise whats going on, before they know it, theyve been assaulted and are left wondering "what the hell just happened".

To be clear, of course proper martial arts training can help, especially if its a system that pressure test the individual, as you referenced, however, not to the degree as many think. As others have pointed out, attackers are almost always in numbers, you could be the a black belt in BJJ and well pressure tested, but it doesnt stop the attackers mates materialising out of nowwhere and kicking your head in, even strangers walking past will kick your head in, thats the nature of society today.
A guy I went to school with was murdered in a pub 12 years ago, while grappling with a drunk and disorderly individual, the attackers girlfriend stabbed the guy I knew (who was a judo BB) with a metal nail file in the leg, he didnt make it to the hospital, he bleed to death.

Imo, having good self and situation awareness, and how you carry yourself goes much further, and if you know things are going to kick off, a well practiced powerful pre-emptive strike / and dont hang about is the best option. Imo.
Open User Options Menu

epdavis7

Sometimes looking like you mean business is enough. I used to stay with my old grandma out in the sticks during the summer. She always kept a pistol in her apron and a shotgun propped in the house. We always had salesman come way out there trying to sell the latest gadget. As an elderly lady out there by herself watching a few young kids she had to have a tough demeanor. I remember her telling a salesman "mister, I don't know who you are or what you are selling, but I guarantee if you take one more step on my property it will be your last." She wasn't kidding either lol. They usually said yes ma'am and got back in their car rather quickly and drove off. You could see the fire in her eyes.
Open User Options Menu

epdavis7

sirloin wrote:
even strangers walking past will kick your head in, thats the nature of society today.


Funny you should mention that. Almost 30 years ago a friend and I were stationed overseas. We were both about 23 and sowing our oats and out on the town drinking ourselves to death. We were walking past a bar and some guys started yelling at us so we yelled back. It kind of escalated and somone standing in front of a bar threw a brick at us. I picked it up and threw it back and it crashed through the front window of the bar. Next thing we knew he and I were standing back to back and it seemed like we were fighting the world. We were holding our own for a short minute but were getting overwhelmed by sheer numbers. We decided to high tail it out of there and kids were following us on bikes and hitting us with sticks and an old lady clocked my friend in the head with her cane. People were literally running out of their houses to take a punch at us or beat us with something. We got damn lucky and the military police and local police got a hold of us before we were beaten to death. Somebody tell me how running is not important again lol. Sometimes its your best survival skill. We got severely reprimanded by our commander, docked pay and had punitive duty, but at least we weren't killed. How did we ever survive being young lol.
Open User Options Menu

Chris H

sgb2112 wrote:
Chris H wrote:
read somewhere once, that it only takes 4 or 5 pounds of pressure on the right spot to drop a man, if he weighs 150 or 250.

Think a right or left hook just below the ear.

In regards to "if or not" a trained fighter in any discipline is equipped in a street fight {defender or attacker} really is irrelevant to me/us.

I {and i think all should} treat all would be adversaries with the highest respect/caution.

You really don't know what you got, until you got it.

Think 4/5 pounds of pressure,

Think you nuts aren't any tougher than anyones elses,

Think you aint stab, bullet, bat or anything else hard, heavy or sharp proof .

Foreman and Holyfield both have inhuman abilities to take a punch..Amir Khan would be the greatest of all time if he did. Boxing at the highest level weeds out glass jaws.

https://youtu.be/ig9uP6BSc4g


yep that fight was awesome and one of my favorites.

However your talking top end of food chain, two big powerful men, fully prepared.

But remember despite this, they were both been dropped and stopped, cos they got hit right then, and despite the war here did not.
Open User Options Menu

epdavis7

I miss the whole Ali, Frazier, Foreman era in Heavyweight boxing. Back when it was really exciting. My Dad and I would get all jazzed up while waiting for the fight to come on. We would always look forward to it and talk about it for days.

Our garage always looked like a boxing gym growing up, speedbags, heavybags, double end bags, jumpropes etc. My Dad and I spent a lot of quality time in there training on not only boxing but other stuff. He's not in the best health these days. He was also an extreme endurance athlete and has some heart issues related to it. Fond memories of childhood for sure.
Open User Options Menu

oldbutsteady

Everyone that responded, thank you, and forgive me if I'm a bit short at times.

I have a follow up question based on the responses related to those that engage in Boxing or other hard contact martial arts (MA).

Boxing and other hard contact MA, seem to have a definite advantage over those that don't based on training that is of a more physical and combative in nature. An example, Tai Chi vs. Kyokushin. Boxing vs Boxercise.

So I don't think it is a matter of you don't forget what you've been taught when an encounter occurs or when a referee is not present you can still perform, I believe it is that one is familiar with truly engaging an opponent and familiarity of being hit.

I'm a firm believer that one will fight as they practice. If your practice is soft and not physical so will be your fighting ability.

I also believe if one doesn't possess the kill or be killed mentality the chance a person will freeze up under sudden aggression rises dramatically.

Just some personal observations thrown out.

OBS
Open User Options Menu

epdavis7

oldbutsteady wrote:
Everyone that responded, thank you, and forgive me if I'm a bit short at times.

I have a follow up question based on the responses related to those that engage in Boxing or other hard contact martial arts (MA).

Boxing and other hard contact MA, seem to have a definite advantage over those that don't based on training that is of a more physical and combative in nature. An example, Tai Chi vs. Kyokushin. Boxing vs Boxercise.

So I don't think it is a matter of you don't forget what you've been taught when an encounter occurs or when a referee is not present you can still perform, I believe it is that one is familiar with truly engaging an opponent and familiarity of being hit.

I'm a firm believer that one will fight as they practice. If your practice is a soft and not physical so will be your fighting ability.

I also believe if one doesn't possess the kill or be killed mentality the chance a person will freeze up under sudden aggression rises dramatically.

Just some personal observations thrown out.

OBS


Attitude, stones and hitting something other than air. I do a visualization exercise before I train to get in the right frame of mind. Body hardening/toughening within reason. Strength training. All of it helps.
Open User Options Menu

oldbutsteady

Well said EP.

OBS
Open User Options Menu

Bill Sekerak

California, USA

I started out at age 12 in the 60s studying Uechi Ryu Karate Do. It is an Okinowan style with deep roots in Chinese Kung Fu. The founder Uechi traveled to China specifically to study Kung Fu and then returned to Okinawa and opened a dojo.
In the late 70s I dropped Uechi Ryu and moved on to Jeet Kune Do and have been a practioner ever since.
Open User Options Menu

ron33

What would be the best MA training for 9-12 year olds to start in , that gets to the point of protection without all the frills . Thanks .
Open User Options Menu

st3

oldbutsteady wrote:
Everyone that responded, thank you, and forgive me if I'm a bit short at times.

I have a follow up question based on the responses related to those that engage in Boxing or other hard contact martial arts (MA).

Boxing and other hard contact MA, seem to have a definite advantage over those that don't based on training that is of a more physical and combative in nature. An example, Tai Chi vs. Kyokushin. Boxing vs Boxercise.

So I don't think it is a matter of you don't forget what you've been taught when an encounter occurs or when a referee is not present you can still perform, I believe it is that one is familiar with truly engaging an opponent and familiarity of being hit.

I'm a firm believer that one will fight as they practice. If your practice is soft and not physical so will be your fighting ability.

I also believe if one doesn't possess the kill or be killed mentality the chance a person will freeze up under sudden aggression rises dramatically.

Just some personal observations thrown out.

OBS


I train on mondays with 2 younger guys. We do live rounds 3 minutes with 30 second rest. We do 15-20 rounds every time. You go back to back and then sit out one.

Wednesday full HIT workout

Thursday is technique

Saturday 5 minutes full out rounds. I only do 2-4 as they are hard on my old body.

I look at it as street prep. I think/hope I can handle myself.

I haven?t competed in a few years but that is as hard as anything I?ve ever done physically and mentally.
Open User Options Menu
First | Previous | 1 | 2 | 3
H.I.T. Acceptable Use Policy