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Determine the Length of Your Workouts

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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

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Equity

Recently I watched a training video involving Larry Wheels and Big Boy.

To cut a long story short they threw up their bb rows and dropped them like ####.

My back personally reacts well to 'unstrict' form, I was wondering if others experienced the same or opposite effect.

Thanks.
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sirloin

Equity wrote:
Recently I watched a training video involving Larry Wheels and Big Boy.

To cut a long story short they threw up their bb rows and dropped them like ####.

My back personally reacts well to 'unsrict' stimulus.pI was wondering if others experienced the same or opposite effect.

Thanks.


I'm the same as yourself mate, on block pulls, pendlay, cable,
or landmine rows etc, an explosive lift and not "accentuating the negative", but rather just taking the slam out of it, produce thickness in my back that decades of strict lifting, lowering, holding didnt.

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StuKE

Same here, rows with a bit of helo to get moving, no squeezing at the top and no unnaturally slow reps work best for my back.
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Equity

Now that I think about it, this issued reminds me of power cleans (a topic discussed a while ago on here). I remember Brian Johnston saying he did PC
when he was younger and his traps exploded in size. Not promoting power cleans (they can and will mess your wrists up), however is there a place for say high pulls or similar movements to accelerate growth in the involved body parts?

Yes I know this is H.I.T. heresy but...


Regards.
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Resultsbased

I don't think you are wrong.

I've commented before that an explosive concentric followed by a controlled negative is in my opinion the most productive way to build muscle, but it's not worth wrecking my joints any further.

I'm currently revising BIG and experimenting with it.

I think it can all work to a point.
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Crotalus

For the last couple years I've been really conscious of my form ; holding contractions in non-lock out movements , slower negatives, etc. and have been having great workouts.

Yesterday I just didn't feel like 'thinking' about each rep so much and just felt like doing hard, regular reps and sets. I still used good form with only 20 seconds rest between sets, but form was definitely more relaxed than usual.

I did my Chest, Shoulders and Triceps and today I'm so sore that everything involving those muscles hurts. Went to the tanning booth right after and it was a workout in itself to get my tee shirt off my arms and shoulders were so tired and ached.

Always good to change things up now and then ... I don't do it enough.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Resultsbased wrote:
I don't think you are wrong.

I've commented before that an explosive concentric followed by a controlled negative is in my opinion the most productive way to build muscle, but it's not worth wrecking my joints any further.

I'm currently revising BIG and experimenting with it.

I think it can all work to a point.


==Scott==
I'd say if it works for you it's not wrong. I found a cheat to get up the weight and a slow lowering of the weight produced good results when I was younger but as old age creeps up I am more concerned with injuries so I don't do that to often.I still like cheating up a few reps at the end of a set when I get stuck on the strict reps for select exercises.
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Resultsbased

I would also suggest that loose form allows you to handle greater loads and prevents an "underloaded" negative, which could potentially cause more micro trauma and doms.

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tensionstrength

I think I found might have found the video you're talking about. Does definitely puts me in the mindset to train. Makess me think of the comparison of the increasing intensity or walking, to jogging, to sprinting, and maybe further still, attempting to sprint up hill.

Makes me also think of John Casler's form. There was an interesting article along these lines on TNation quite some time ago by TC Luoma, titled something like "Form Doesn't Matter...At All". He doesn't actually say it doesn't matter at all in the article, but is very much in line what what is being talked about here. I'm pretty sure that article has been linked on here before.

If I use looser form or stricter form I just tend to prefer using a level of resistance that gets my attention from the get go. I usually do some type of warm up or feeler sets.

This also makes me think about when you're lifting something heavy outside of the gym or need to use a lot of force quickly.
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tensionstrength

Resultsbased wrote:
I would also suggest that loose form allows you to handle greater loads and prevents an "underloaded" negative, which could potentially cause more micro trauma and doms.



Turpin had made a comment somewhere on here awhile back about becoming more skilled at absorbing the negative, not sure of his exact wording. But made sense to me. If you are in control of the weight you sort of are intuitively handling the weight. Maybe sort of a bit of knee bend in an overhead press, the form you in the video talked about at the start if this post, etc. You are anticipating the weight. To an onlooker it might look outta control, but it's not.

You may have already talked about all this in another thread in here. But just very motivating stuff here for me.
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Resultsbased

tensionstrength wrote:
I think I found might have found the video you're talking about. Does definitely puts me in the mindset to train. Makess me think of the comparison of the increasing intensity or walking, to jogging, to sprinting, and maybe further still, attempting to sprint up hill.

Makes me also think of John Casler's form. There was an interesting article along these lines on TNation quite some time ago by TC Luoma, titled something like "Form Doesn't Matter...At All". He doesn't actually say it doesn't matter at all in the article, but is very much in line what what is being talked about here. I'm pretty sure that article has been linked on here before.

If I use looser form or stricter form I just tend to prefer using a level of resistance that gets my attention from the get go. I usually do some type of warm up or feeler sets.

This also makes me think about when you're lifting something heavy outside of the gym or need to use a lot of force quickly.


In another thread I asked Dr. Darden about pre-stretch which is something Nautilus and AJ said was a requirement.

I understand the reason for bot using it as it is incompatible with the slow rep philosophy.

However, the myotatic reflex is a very real thing and it sets up a stronger neural drive...increasing the intensity of each contraction.

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Chris H

with any curl movement, pd or row, strict seems to impart to much stress into my elbow joints.
A tad looser seems to hit the belly of the muscle and save the joint, or that's how it feels.
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tensionstrength

Resultsbased wrote:
tensionstrength wrote:
I think I found might have found the video you're talking about. Does definitely puts me in the mindset to train. Makess me think of the comparison of the increasing intensity or walking, to jogging, to sprinting, and maybe further still, attempting to sprint up hill.

Makes me also think of John Casler's form. There was an interesting article along these lines on TNation quite some time ago by TC Luoma, titled something like "Form Doesn't Matter...At All". He doesn't actually say it doesn't matter at all in the article, but is very much in line what what is being talked about here. I'm pretty sure that article has been linked on here before.

If I use looser form or stricter form I just tend to prefer using a level of resistance that gets my attention from the get go. I usually do some type of warm up or feeler sets.

This also makes me think about when you're lifting something heavy outside of the gym or need to use a lot of force quickly.


In another thread I asked Dr. Darden about pre-stretch which is something Nautilus and AJ said was a requirement.

I understand the reason for bot using it as it is incompatible with the slow rep philosophy.

However, the myotatic reflex is a very real thing and it sets up a stronger neural drive...increasing the intensity of each contraction.



Yes indeed. I think both are very good and I don't know that I can totally articulate why. My version of slow, I can't even tell how you how slow I move. If I'm going down that road I focusing on contracting, minimizing momentum, and trying to not break form as I fatigue and the weight eventually stops moving. I would eventually like to try having someone lowering the amount of weight and keep going with the exercise. Very minimal rest drop set.

Regarding the myotatic reflex. I think we are seeing a very similar if not the same value of that. Good stuff!
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tensionstrength

Chris H wrote:
with any curl movement, pd or row, strict seems to impart to much stress into my elbow joints.
A tad looser seems to hit the belly of the muscle and save the joint, or that's how it feels.


I hear you on this. I have found for myself that sometimes into a workout this almost intuituve? feel, gets better if I come back to the same exercise maybe again in the same workout. Sort of contradicting my recent comment about going minimal, but yea. Not sure if it's the same thing but also puts me in the mind set of what David Landau has called "gauging the muscle" or not letting rep speed be your dictator or form? to an extent? I don't wanna mess up his words but yea, feeling the muscles, getting really good, strong contractions.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Rhythmic movement work best for size... getting that good pump and a lot of contractions in very little time. How loose you train should be reasonable... as anything you do younger has an effect (on the joints) as you age. I prefer relatively strict training with the inclusion of 1-2 looser reps at the end (at least with some movements, like rows).
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Equity

Brian Johnston wrote:
Rhythmic movement work best for size... getting that good pump and a lot of contractions in very little time. How loose you train should be reasonable... as anything you do younger has an effect (on the joints) as you age. I prefer relatively strict training with the inclusion of 1-2 looser reps at the end (at least with some movements, like rows).


Thanks.

Larry Wheels and 'Big Boy' were partially deadlifting the weight off the floor till torso was about 45 degrees maybe then pulling with the arms all in one movement. I get mixed up on this subject but does the active insuffciency etc have a play in compound movements done like this? Like the bracing acts in a good way?

Cheer again!
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

What I can say is that whenever I do a freeweight row, it always is a deadlift into a row (except that when I do the pull I am standing upright, so that the deadlift morphs into a row, which morphs into a standing pull). One of my favorite upper back exercises. I do this smoothly and continuously, however... no yanking, jerking or explosive movement (I don't trust the low back to do that BS at 54).
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Equity wrote:
Brian Johnston wrote:
Rhythmic movement work best for size... getting that good pump and a lot of contractions in very little time. How loose you train should be reasonable... as anything you do younger has an effect (on the joints) as you age. I prefer relatively strict training with the inclusion of 1-2 looser reps at the end (at least with some movements, like rows).

Thanks.

Larry Wheels and 'Big Boy' were partially deadlifting the weight off the floor till torso was about 45 degrees maybe then pulling with the arms all in one movement. I get mixed up on this subject but does the active insuffciency etc have a play in compound movements done like this? Like the bracing acts in a good way?

Cheer again!


You're using more muscle mass to move more weight... I really don't know how much it translates to developing an area that you're targeting, however. For bodybuilders that is key... and when you start looking at people with decent genetics taking drugs you can't conclude anything. From my experience I never noticed more muscle from a slightly loose style with more weight. I usually developed joint issues. But I noticed better results (development) from higher-rep rhythmic movements that comprised of 'sufficient' muscle fatigue/sets in a condensed amount of time.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Brian Johnston wrote:
Rhythmic movement work best for size... getting that good pump and a lot of contractions in very little time. How loose you train should be reasonable... as anything you do younger has an effect (on the joints) as you age. I prefer relatively strict training with the inclusion of 1-2 looser reps at the end (at least with some movements, like rows).


==Scott==
Good advice!!
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