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Leavened Bread
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ATP 4 Vitality

Civilizations have flourished on five main starches.

1). Wheat

2). Corn

3). Rice

4). Beans

5). Potatoes

These staple foods have been the core of all poor peasants the world over. These peasant foods often involve skilled preparation by knowledgeable cooks using inventiveness and skills passed down from earlier generations.

I have mastered skills of preparing 4 out of the 5 peasant foods. Bread has continually escaped any poor attempt of mine, despite my continued efforts, to perfect leavening of bread.

I love fresh baked bread. I wrote a popular topic here several years ago.

Entitled: Grain Food Products


Sourdough bread can be considered even by those who fear the dreaded gluten protein.

Any recipes or experiences on making bread?
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1958

Texas, USA

Well,I'm not a peasant so I have no interest in this.
Show us your 22" neck!
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Average Al

ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
Civilizations have flourished on five main starches.

1). Wheat

2). Corn

3). Rice

4). Beans

5). Potatoes

These staple foods have been the core of all poor peasants the world over. These peasant foods often involve skilled preparation by knowledgeable cooks using inventiveness and skills passed down from earlier generations.

I have mastered skills of preparing 4 out of the 5 peasant foods. Bread has continually escaped any poor attempt of mine, despite my continued efforts, to perfect leavening of bread.

I love fresh baked bread. I wrote a popular topic here several years ago.

Entitled: Grain Food Products


Sourdough bread can be considered even by those who fear the dreaded gluten protein.

Any recipes or experiences on making bread?


My wife makes some occasionally, using a bread machine. And she usually buys a packaged recipe kit for the machine, so probably more like homemade junk food? Still tasty enough when fresh.

I remember making sour dough bread years ago, just out of college. I recall it was messy, time consuming, and a lot of work. Now I just keep a frozen loaf of
Ezekiel bread in the freezer for those occasions when I want a little toast with my eggs.
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backtrack

Problem is most of the wheat now grown is genetically modified which would be all well and good, but turns out the body doesn't like it. Bit like Holstein cows milk.

Roman bread is easy to make and tastes good and different at the same time.

Spelt Flour
Water
Salt
Yeast
Honey
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ATP 4 Vitality

1958 wrote:
Well,I'm not a peasant so I have no interest in this.
Show us your 22" neck!


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ATP 4 Vitality

Average Al wrote:
ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
Any recipes or experiences on making bread?

My wife makes some occasionally, using a bread machine. And she usually buys a packaged recipe kit for the machine, so probably more like homemade junk food? Still tasty enough when fresh.

I remember making sour dough bread years ago, just out of college. I recall it was messy, time consuming, and a lot of work. Now I just keep a frozen loaf of
Ezekiel bread in the freezer for those occasions when I want a little toast with my eggs.


I gave up on my bread machine. I also gave up on the no knead bread processing method. I am currently experimenting with long fermentation times of the flour to enable the lactobacilli bacteria to fully reduce gluten to low levels. The bacteria and yeast benefit also from fine particle size of white flour. The bacteria produce from the flour many beneficial products that the human body uses.
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too old

ATP4
can you elaborate on your bread formulation/process. Do you know of any commercially available versions of this "long fermented" processed bread which reduces the gluten?
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Average Al

ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
Average Al wrote:
ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
Any recipes or experiences on making bread?

My wife makes some occasionally, using a bread machine. And she usually buys a packaged recipe kit for the machine, so probably more like homemade junk food? Still tasty enough when fresh.

I remember making sour dough bread years ago, just out of college. I recall it was messy, time consuming, and a lot of work. Now I just keep a frozen loaf of
Ezekiel bread in the freezer for those occasions when I want a little toast with my eggs.

I gave up on my bread machine. I also gave up on the no knead bread processing method. I am currently experimenting with long fermentation times of the flour to enable the lactobacilli bacteria to fully reduce gluten to low levels. The bacteria and yeast benefit also from fine particle size of white flour. The bacteria produce from the flour many beneficial products that the human body uses.


I am sure that traditionally made bread using heirloom flour is very delicious, and possibly(?) healthier. But I do not eat enough to justify the effort to make my own.

I did not realize that sourdough had reduced levels of gluten. So I may try to find a local bakery that does a good sourdough, and give it a try. (I do not have an issue with gluten, but my wife believes she has a mild intolerance for it).

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DuzHIT

You should grind your own wheat. You can get the particle size however you want, and the germ oil has not had time to go rancid, which provides better flavor.

Also, peasants had no bleached white flour to use in their recipes.
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ATP 4 Vitality

backtrack wrote:
Problem is most of the wheat now grown is genetically modified which would be all well and good, but turns out the body doesn't like it. Bit like Holstein cows milk.

Roman bread is easy to make and tastes good and different at the same time.

Spelt Flour
Water
Salt
Yeast
Honey



Thanks!

I too am experimenting with various types of flours
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ATP 4 Vitality

too old wrote:
ATP4
can you elaborate on your bread formulation/process. Do you know of any commercially available versions of this "long fermented" processed bread which reduces the gluten?


I know very little of use to anyone. And, there are many sharks in the water here only too eager to take out of context what I write.

I know lactobacilli bacteria can process gluten protein molecules into harmless, easily digested protein. Regardless of what morons write here, my first degree came in Medical Technology, as of which microbiology is a large subdivision of practice, of which I became quite proficient at performing years ago in the lab. I am versed well in microbiology knowledge. Thus:

The microbes themselves, many various types of fermenting bacteria, and completely different organisms, yeasts, produce useful products for human consumption. Look this up, please do not take my word as the gospel. The B vitamins come to mind.

Particle size, the smaller the faster the fermentation process, is useful. White unbleached flour is useful here with very small particle size. White flour can be blended successfully with other types of flour, such as rye.
I have used pineapple juice for a sourdough stater, probably not necessary. I now use organic whole wheat and water with no chlorine (kills bacteria and yeasts. It takes daily refeeds of about a week to get a consistent sourdough starter.

There are many recipes, suit yourself, as I like pumpernickel bread. Note, bread without including salt tastes funny.

The longer the bread ferments, the stronger the sour taste, less gluten, easier to digest, more products from bacteria/yeast fermentation.

Fermentation can be prolonged by refrigeration. I use a large storage container full of fermented sourdough waiting to be processed into bread as needed. I have refrigerated fermenting dour up to a month.

Use a Dutch oven to bake bread, and a gram scale to accurately measure ingredients.

My problems are related to salt, too much water, and lack of industriousness. Shame on me!
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ATP 4 Vitality

DuzHIT wrote:
You should grind your own wheat.


I totally agree.
Which grinder brands are good?



You can get the particle size however you want,



I did not realize the homemade flour particle size could be adjusted down to a very small particle size!



and the germ oil has not had time to go rancid, which provides better flavor.


Also, peasants had no bleached white flour to use in their recipes.



All good ideas!

I use unbleached white flour.
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DuzHIT

I've had a Nutrimill electric grinder for 10 or so years, bought it because my wife likes grinding her own stuff, didn't want her to hand grind everything. She used to use an asian mortar/pestle combo.

Anyway, it adjusts from coarse to fine, is very durable, never had a concern with it. Saves a pile of time, too.
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Average Al

ATP 4 Vitality wrote:

I have used pineapple juice for a sourdough stater, probably not necessary. I now use organic whole wheat and water with no chlorine (kills bacteria and yeasts. It takes daily refeeds of about a week to get a consistent sourdough starter.



Pineapple juice? I'm curious why that works as a starter.

When you make a starter from scratch (just wheat and water), do you always end up with the right bacteria? Is it possible to get a bad strain of bacteria, and have to start over?

Can you use yogurt as a source for the starter?
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StuKE

DuzHIT wrote:
I've had a Nutrimill electric grinder for 10 or so years, bought it because my wife likes grinding her own stuff, didn't want her to hand grind everything. She used to use an asian mortar/pestle combo.

Anyway, it adjusts from coarse to fine, is very durable, never had a concern with it. Saves a pile of time, too.


I have made bread on and off for years, all by hand with no breaf machine.
I prefer kneading to no knead but have done both plenty of times. The no knead is super simple,.an absolute minimum of effort is required, but the texture is not as good in my opinion. I have been considering making my own starter so I can make good sourdough.
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ATP 4 Vitality

DuzHIT wrote:
I've had a Nutrimill electric grinder for 10 or so years, bought it because my wife likes grinding her own stuff, didn't want her to hand grind everything. She used to use an asian mortar/pestle combo.

Anyway, it adjusts from coarse to fine, is very durable, never had a concern with it. Saves a pile of time, too.


I appreciate this post!


I am in the process of starting a new sourdough starter.

The resultant bread will incorporate more salt and use more yeast to expedite loaf rise during proofing.
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ATP 4 Vitality

Average Al wrote:
ATP 4 Vitality wrote:


Pineapple juice? I'm curious why that works as a starter.



http://www.thefreshloaf.com/...solution-part-1



When you make a starter from scratch (just wheat and water), do you always end up with the right bacteria? Is it possible to get a bad strain of bacteria, and have to start over?

Can you use yogurt as a source for the starter?


1) No,
But, you can purchase proper starter material

2) yes
Acid from pineapple juice decreases pH so there exists growth conditions for proper bacteria and yeasts. There is a symbiotic relationship between yeast and bacteria during bread making efforts.





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ATP 4 Vitality

Average Al wrote:
ATP 4 Vitality wrote:


Pineapple juice? I'm curious why that works as a starter.



http://www.thefreshloaf.com/...solution-part-1



When you make a starter from scratch (just wheat and water), do you always end up with the right bacteria? Is it possible to get a bad strain of bacteria, and have to start over?

Can you use yogurt as a source for the starter?


1) No,
But, you can purchase proper starter material

2) yes
Acid from pineapple juice decreases pH so there exists growth conditions for proper bacteria and yeasts. There is a symbiotic relationship between yeast and bacteria during bread making efforts.


3). Yes yogurt can be used


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