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Determine the Length of Your Workouts

Evaluate Your Progress

Keep Warm-Up in Perspective


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"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

 

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

To find out more about McCutcheon and his training, click here.

 

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masterscl

I'm looking for some advice. I'm 48 and follow a full body HIT routine. I also run Spartan races so I must train for them as well. I run twice a week and during my run I do some obstacle specific training such as monkey bars (pull up work), bucket carries and burpees, etc. I'm having a hard time juggling the frequency of my workouts.
My routine looks like this: HIT, day off, run/obstacle training, day off, HIT, day off, run/obstacle training, day off, etc. I'm finding that my legs, traps and lats are getting too much work and my progress has stalled and my knees ache during the runs. I'm clearly over-training those body-parts. I eliminated all direct trap and pull-up/chin-up work from my HIT routine and solved the problem with those body-parts. The problem is my legs. I cannot eliminate the HIT leg work or I'll sacrifice strength and size and I cannot eliminate the running or I'll die during my races. Any thoughts on program structure or frequency to help alleviate this?
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1958

Texas, USA

Read through various posts by epdavis7. He's a runner who has found a way to be competitive without beating himself up with too much running training.
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Chris H

masterscl wrote:
I'm looking for some advice. I'm 48 and follow a full body HIT routine. I also run Spartan races so I must train for them as well. I run twice a week and during my run I do some obstacle specific training such as monkey bars (pull up work), bucket carries and burpees, etc. I'm having a hard time juggling the frequency of my workouts.
My routine looks like this: HIT, day off, run/obstacle training, day off, HIT, day off, run/obstacle training, day off, etc. I'm finding that my legs, traps and lats are getting too much work and my progress has stalled and my knees ache during the runs. I'm clearly over-training those body-parts. I eliminated all direct trap and pull-up/chin-up work from my HIT routine and solved the problem with those body-parts. The problem is my legs. I cannot eliminate the HIT leg work or I'll sacrifice strength and size and I cannot eliminate the running or I'll die during my races. Any thoughts on program structure or frequency to help alleviate this?


have you considered hitting legs every other week, or hitting quads one week, and hams/glutes the next.
with all the running i don't think you will lose muscle/strength, but the reduction in vol may solve the knee issue, or lessen it.
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hit4me

Florida, USA

you may want to try full body once per week
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pharaoh1063

Ditto what ChrisH has said above.

And please check out any and all information that Strength and Conditioning coaches have written about "in-season" conditioning for their athletes. These guys can easily get their people to high levels of fitness during the off-season, after injuries have healed. That's relatively easy. But the real challenge is how to maintain that bench press level or that squat strength when you have 1-3 games per week AND practices, depending on the sport. Mixing the two is tricky, but that's what they're paid for. How they do this might shed some light on strategies you can use.
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sgb2112

For what you are doing, a case could be made for a more consolidated training &a routine that is a bit more sport-specific.

Tue: Run/ Obstacle training


Thur: Run/Obstacle training

Saturday:

1. Trap Bar DL

2. Push-Press

3. Hill Sprints- Speed work has carry over to longer runs and will let you maintain your leg size or even increase it.
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masterscl

1958 wrote:
Read through various posts by epdavis7. He's a runner who has found a way to be competitive without beating himself up with too much running training.


I will check out his posts, thanks!
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masterscl

hit4me wrote:
you may want to try full body once per week


Great idea. As I get closer to a race, I'll dial back the HIT to once a week and obstacle/run train twice a week. It's hard to do because I love HIT and hate running!
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masterscl

sgb2112 wrote:
For what you are doing, a case could be made for a more consolidated training &a routine that is a bit more sport-specific.

Tue: Run/ Obstacle training


Thur: Run/Obstacle training

Saturday:

1. Trap Bar DL

2. Push-Press

3. Hill Sprints- Speed work has carry over to longer runs and will let you maintain your leg size or even increase it.


Thanks, I am going to dial back the HIT to once a week and proceed. I like the T/TH/Sat schedule. Should give me the rest I need.
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epdavis7

I had written a response, but it somehow got deleted. I think step one is defining your objective. Are you primarily a bodybuilder/strength trainer or a hardcore OCR racer? I?m more of a hybrid. I?m 53yo, 6?4?, 210-215lbs and have a longer torso than legs which are not exactly ideal stats for long distance running or OCR races. In spite of that, I do very well in age group placing particularly when there is a Clydesdale division. I recently got a second place finish in a 20k rough terrain trail run which I tend to do better on than on flat road races where pure speed wins the day and is the domain of the Quarter Horses.

I tend to focus primarily on 10mile races, Half Marathons, Tough Mudders and other local OCR races. I have run several longer races and have done triathlons and duathlon?s. Next year I have signed up for a triathlon, duathlon, Tough Mudder, BoneFrog (OCR put on by Navy Seals), and over a dozen trail and road races.

My training is really simple and basic. I run but once weekly alternating a 6 mile run on a flat course with a metronome working on foot turnover speed with a 10 mile rough terrain hilly course without a metronome working on agility. I weight train once weekly alternating an A and B routine.

A
Non lockout Dumbbell Bench Press
Dumbbell Rows
Non lockout Hip Belt Squat
Weighted Crunches
Thickbar Wrist Curls
Thickbar Reverse Wrist Curls
Gripper work plus static holds

B
Weighted Chins
Non lockout Seated Dumbbell Press
Weighted 45 degree hyperextensions
Dumbbell Calf Raises
Dard Tibia Raises
Dumbbell Neck Curls
Ironmind Neck harness extensions

I occasionally do rest pause, negatives, static holds, stage reps etc when I hit a sticking point.

Additionally, I do 2-3 self defense sessions a week, almost daily dry fire training, walk my dogs several times a day at a good clip, and a ton of manual labor taking care of my home and property. I recreationally ride bikes with my wife, hunt, fish, hike, camp etc. I lead a very active life in general.

For OCR specifically, I study the events for a specific race and try and glean tips on the best methods to conquer an obstacle. I personally believe relying on sheer athleticism is the wrong way to approach an obstacle and you need to find the best method to conquer it while expending the least amount of energy possible as you can have many obstacles in an OCR.

Grip is so so very important. In addition to what I do in my strength training sessions, after a run after a cooldown walk I?ll first hold an Asian squat for a minute and then I?ll hang from a chin bar two handed for as long as I can using Fat Gripz extremes and then alternate hanging one handed without Fat Gripz until I can no longer hold onto the bar.

Two good books on a low mileage approach to running and adventure racing are Low Mileage runner by Aaron Olsen and Ultramental by Andrew Magness,

Here is also another approach I have used for running races although I use some personal tweaks for recovery purposes.

https://smartstrengthaustin.co...

Sorry for the long winded post and hope you found something of value in it.

My pic is in the last pages of the John Little cardio thread.
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epdavis7

Chris H wrote:
masterscl wrote:
I'm looking for some advice. I'm 48 and follow a full body HIT routine. I also run Spartan races so I must train for them as well. I run twice a week and during my run I do some obstacle specific training such as monkey bars (pull up work), bucket carries and burpees, etc. I'm having a hard time juggling the frequency of my workouts.
My routine looks like this: HIT, day off, run/obstacle training, day off, HIT, day off, run/obstacle training, day off, etc. I'm finding that my legs, traps and lats are getting too much work and my progress has stalled and my knees ache during the runs. I'm clearly over-training those body-parts. I eliminated all direct trap and pull-up/chin-up work from my HIT routine and solved the problem with those body-parts. The problem is my legs. I cannot eliminate the HIT leg work or I'll sacrifice strength and size and I cannot eliminate the running or I'll die during my races. Any thoughts on program structure or frequency to help alleviate this?

have you considered hitting legs every other week, or hitting quads one week, and hams/glutes the next.
with all the running i don't think you will lose muscle/strength, but the reduction in vol may solve the knee issue, or lessen it.


Excellent advice. That is what works for me.
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masterscl

Thank you guys for the advice...this is priceless!
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Eric_P

That's an interesting Saturday routine sgb2112. You'd cover a lot of muscle and could build lots of strength with the TBDL and Push Press.
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sgb2112

Eric B. wrote:
That's an interesting Saturday routine sgb2112. You'd cover a lot of muscle and could build lots of strength with the TBDL and Push Press.


Always thought Mentzer has the right idea calling these abbreviated workouts 'The Athletes Routine' i.e. that strength training is a supplemental activity to those engaged in a sport.

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simon-hecubus

Texas, USA

You thoughts about losing size and strength on your legs are misplaced. I took a 12-week course in Tai Chi and found it very demanding on my quads.

So, I eliminated all quad work except Leg Ext once every 2 weeks.

After the 12 weeks were up, I cautiously loaded the squat bar with the same weight I'd used before Tai Chi. I easily performed as many reps as I did previously.

In fact, I probably could have done more but stopped because I was so freaked out!

Timing is a lot of it too. Plan a couple days off from the running and everything. On the day before that gap, do your leg training. AND, stop shy of failure by 1-2 reps and focus on gentle progression during the obstacle training time.

Best,
Scott
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epdavis7

sgb2112 wrote:
Eric B. wrote:
That's an interesting Saturday routine sgb2112. You'd cover a lot of muscle and could build lots of strength with the TBDL and Push Press.

Always thought Mentzer has the right idea calling these abbreviated workouts 'The Athletes Routine' i.e. that strength training is a supplemental activity to those engaged in a sport.



Truth. Athletes (depending on sport) expend so much energy and effort they don't need to do the kind of training that a pure bodybuilder or strength trainer would do. It would be disastrous and energy draining. If I was sedentary and did no other physical activity I would weight train more.
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