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Franco Columbu Passed Away
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sirloin

HeavyHitter32 wrote:
The average lifespan of a male in Italy is 80.5, so Franco's 78 was obviously within the average range.



AGAIN ill say it..in my first post i said HE HAD A DECENT INNINGS FOR A DRUG USER. Ya got it? Jes
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sirloin

spud wrote:
BorisV wrote:
epdavis7 wrote:
Training has very little to do with it.

Steroids build muscle without training.

Quoting from the above article:

The study (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11701431) showed that 20 weeks of 600 mg/week of testosterone WITHOUT TRAINING generated 17.5 lbs of lean body mass gain (more than 10 weeks of steroids and training as conducted in another study www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8637535: 17.5 lbs LBM vs. 13 lbs). So a mere 600 mg/week will build over 17 lbs of muscle in 20 weeks without training. The group also showed a 75% gain in leg press strength. Without training. Just let that sink in. For many males this is a year's worth of gains if they are lucky. In 20 weeks. Without training. Just drugs. A follow-up analysis of the study showed clearly that the increasing doses of anabolics were associated with muscle fiber growth in both Type I and Type II fibers and increased myonuclear number. This is real growth from fairly moderate doses of steroids without any training.


Boris - That's insane.

I've done as you've instructed and let it sink in. I'd heard this was possible before but never seen a study on it.

Have you read the full study?

17 pounds of muscle from 600 mg a week, without training, over 20 weeks. The increase in leg press strength as well is insane. Without training.

Now just imagine what would have happened if they'd trained on a reasonably well thought out HIT routine twice a week during that same 20 week period.

Next time I hear someone spouting off about how it's not all about drugs, you still have to work hard, I'm going to know with even more certainty that they talking nonsense.


Fuck studies, ive seen it with my own eyes, averages Joes swagger in, hop on the gear, do nothing but fluff n pump, eat shite and binge drink and within less than a year they've gain 30-40lb of muscle! At the other end, ive seen natural guys train for years, focused, train extremely hard, eat properly, dont party, get enough rest, and they have these drugged up muppets say to them "do you even lift".
I wish it was nonesense.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

== Scott==
It?s pretty clear that steroids effect the heart in negative ways but I?m wondering how much a life time of gut busting , red in the face going all out workouts has on the heart it?s self with out any drugs? I?ve often sat there after a balls to the wall killing myself workout and wondered if years of doing such workouts could actually cause similar damage to the heart with out the drugs?
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Crotalus

More proof of what bullshit is shoved down your throats as a result of 'studies'.

Nobody is gaining shit with out training by just using drugs ... how can anyone believe such crap ?

17 pounds of muscle without training .... LOL

But I guess it has to be true since someone was compelled to do a 'study' on it and study results presented are always nothing but the truth.

Plus it was on the internet ... no lies or crap being put on the internet ...



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sirloin

entsminger wrote:
== Scott==
It?s pretty clear that steroids effect the heart in negative ways but I?m wondering how much a life time of gut busting , red in the face going all out workouts has on the heart it?s self with out any drugs? I?ve often sat there after a balls to the wall killing myself workout and wondered if years of doing such workouts could actually cause similar damage to the heart with out the drugs?


Cant argue with that, its true. Its the very reason why after Arnolds first heart surgery his doc told him not more heavy lifting.
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HeavyHitter32

sirloin wrote:
HeavyHitter32 wrote:
The average lifespan of a male in Italy is 80.5, so Franco's 78 was obviously within the average range.



AGAIN ill say it..in my first post i said HE HAD A DECENT INNINGS FOR A DRUG USER. Ya got it? Jes


Wow, we have GOD on the forum!

Amazing.

The one who can tell us exactly how and why a man died at 78 years old (near average lifespan) who was fit enough to actually go swimming and was reportedly in very good health.

Whoever would have thought?

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sirloin

HeavyHitter32 wrote:
sirloin wrote:
HeavyHitter32 wrote:
The average lifespan of a male in Italy is 80.5, so Franco's 78 was obviously within the average range.



AGAIN ill say it..in my first post i said HE HAD A DECENT INNINGS FOR A DRUG USER. Ya got it? Jes

Wow, we have GOD on the forum!

Amazing.

The one who can tell us exactly how and why a man died at 78 years old (near average lifespan) who was fit enough to actually go swimming and was reportedly in very good health.

Whoever would have thought?



You too kind, but Robs fine...

Very good health you say?

https://extratv.com/...u-drowns-at-78/

Theres multiple sources reporting the same, he had a heart attack while swimming and drowned.

I have also agreed with Dan, IF this report is indeed true, there are possibly multiple factors, drug use in his younger years may well be one, given they do irreversible damage.

Bless you my child.
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sirloin

https://www.hollywoodreporter....

"taken ill while swimming"
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Nwlifter

remember too, what we generalize as 'heart' usually isn't the actual heart anyway. Most heart problems are actually heart damage from clogged arteries. The drugs, diet, etc doesn't harm the heart at all directly (usually) it's the arteries supplying blood to the heart that get clogged, and that lower blood flow causes lack of oxygen which causes the heart attack.
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Nwlifter

sirloin wrote:
HeavyHitter32 wrote:
The average lifespan of a male in Italy is 80.5, so Franco's 78 was obviously within the average range.



AGAIN ill say it..in my first post i said HE HAD A DECENT INNINGS FOR A DRUG USER. Ya got it? Jes


Isn't that exactly what heavyhitter is also saying???? Yes, it is
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Nwlifter

Ok wow, I guess steroids can actually cause actual heart issues
https://www.sciencedaily.com/...00427171802.htm

Long-term anabolic steroid use may weaken the heart more than previously thought and may increase the risk of heart failure, according to research reported in Circulation: Heart Failure, an American Heart Association journal.

In the small study, investigators found that the left ventricle, the heart's main pumping chamber, was significantly weaker during contraction (systolic function) in participants who had taken steroids compared to a group of similar non-steroid users.
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sirloin

Nwlifter wrote:
remember too, what we generalize as 'heart' usually isn't the actual heart anyway. Most heart problems are actually heart damage from clogged arteries. The drugs, diet, etc doesn't harm the heart at all directly (usually) it's the arteries supplying blood to the heart that get clogged, and that lower blood flow causes lack of oxygen which causes the heart attack.


The heart can enlarge, GH grows it too, left ventriular hypertrophy, but yeah, the drugs clog arteries, and significantly decrease HDL chol and increasing LDL chol.
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sirloin

Nwlifter wrote:
sirloin wrote:
HeavyHitter32 wrote:
The average lifespan of a male in Italy is 80.5, so Franco's 78 was obviously within the average range.



AGAIN ill say it..in my first post i said HE HAD A DECENT INNINGS FOR A DRUG USER. Ya got it? Jes

Isn't that exactly what heavyhitter is also saying???? Yes, it is


Yes, but in a different contexted, as his last response to me confirmed.
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sirloin

https://www.google.com/...mr-olympia.html

Great story, interesting last paragraph.

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sirloin

Nwlifter wrote:
Ok wow, I guess steroids can actually cause actual heart issues
https://www.sciencedaily.com/...00427171802.htm

Long-term anabolic steroid use may weaken the heart more than previously thought and may increase the risk of heart failure, according to research reported in Circulation: Heart Failure, an American Heart Association journal.

In the small study, investigators found that the left ventricle, the heart's main pumping chamber, was significantly weaker during contraction (systolic function) in participants who had taken steroids compared to a group of similar non-steroid users.


On a side note, when id my stroke at 24, my carotid artery went into spasm, an MRI showed ive just the one CA, what cause it? The neurologist said "your guess is as good as mine, sometimes these things just happen". My health makers where all good, my arties where healthy. Who knows, perhaps the same happened to Franco, unfortunately he was swimming at the time, he could well have survived.
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Nwlifter

sirloin wrote:
Nwlifter wrote:
Ok wow, I guess steroids can actually cause actual heart issues
https://www.sciencedaily.com/...00427171802.htm

Long-term anabolic steroid use may weaken the heart more than previously thought and may increase the risk of heart failure, according to research reported in Circulation: Heart Failure, an American Heart Association journal.

In the small study, investigators found that the left ventricle, the heart's main pumping chamber, was significantly weaker during contraction (systolic function) in participants who had taken steroids compared to a group of similar non-steroid users.

On a side note, when id my stroke at 24, my carotid artery went into spasm, an MRI showed ive just the one CA, what cause it? The neurologist said "your guess is as good as mine, sometimes these things just happen". My health makers where all good, my arties where healthy. Who knows, perhaps the same happened to Franco, unfortunately he was swimming at the time, he could well have survived.


Yes, no way to guess or calculate... maybe if Franco never took drugs he'd have lived 1 more year? 10 more? Or 10 less even, never know what's going on in the body for sure. Drowning from it sucks, if he'd have been on the street with paramedics quickly there, he'd probably be in recovery now...

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entsminger

Virginia, USA

==Scott==
Speaking of problems from drugs I often wonder how the Chemo therapy I had to go through to beat cancer effected my heart or arteries or whatever. I wonder but in reality I don't think I really want to know because the mind is powerful thing and if I knew it did damage to certain organs or whatever I would never get that out of my head and would dwell on it. I know once a ways back I had a check up and the doctor said some artery or heart valve or whatever in my system was smaller than it should be. I could never get that out of my head, even today when I work out I worry about that small artery even though the doctors said not to worry. The mind can control attitude and at times attitude can be everything.
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Chris H

Nwlifter wrote:
sirloin wrote:
Nwlifter wrote:
sirloin wrote:
Who would have thought within 10-12 years this teenager would have been a 430lb worlds strongest man winner, have a deadlift world record and mulitple Arnold classic strongman wins. Drugs can turn the average into He-men.



For sure and those with great genetics, it turns them into supermen like that guy!

Thats the thing though, this guy was / is not a genetic freak.


To me, it seems like anyone that can get that strong, drugs or not, must have amazing genetics since many others can train heavy, take drugs and still never reach those levels?


i don't know to be sure.
Franco on PEDS probably carried 30 pounds + of additional muscle, likely double his normal muscle mass.Combine that with his leverages, and his bench is not really an indicator of outstanding genes.
its simply impossible to calculate unless one knew what Franco weighed of the shit, and clean for several years.
i say he would weight 30 + less and his bench would be mid 200s not mid 400.
Consider whilst he was reported far stronger than Arnold, his BP and DL at 485 and 750 respectively were not that far above Arnies 450/710.
Also factor out the hype, factor in reality and you will find those lifts exaggerated.
Seen plenty of 300+ benchers in quick time on gear, and many over 400+ who were long term users.
A couple Franco's stamp, but fuck all off the juice.
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Chris H

entsminger wrote:
==Scott==
Speaking of problems from drugs I often wonder how the Chemo therapy I had to go through to beat cancer effected my heart or arteries or whatever. I wonder but in reality I don't think I really want to know because the mind is powerful thing and if I knew it did damage to certain organs or whatever I would never get that out of my head and would dwell on it. I know once a ways back I had a check up and the doctor said some artery or heart valve or whatever in my system was smaller than I should be. I could never get that out of my head, even today when I work out I worry about that small artery even though the doctors said not to worry. The mind can control attitude and at times attitude can be everything.


i have no idea what those observations from your Doctors mean, but i sincerely hope its meaning less.
Be healthy my friend, eat well and exercise but not obsessively, maintain a calm demeanour, by happy and enjoy life.
Even arguing on this forum - lol
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BorisV

Maryland, USA

spud wrote:
BorisV wrote:
epdavis7 wrote:
Training has very little to do with it.

Steroids build muscle without training.

Quoting from the above article:

The study (www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11701431) showed that 20 weeks of 600 mg/week of testosterone WITHOUT TRAINING generated 17.5 lbs of lean body mass gain (more than 10 weeks of steroids and training as conducted in another study www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8637535: 17.5 lbs LBM vs. 13 lbs). So a mere 600 mg/week will build over 17 lbs of muscle in 20 weeks without training. The group also showed a 75% gain in leg press strength. Without training. Just let that sink in. For many males this is a year's worth of gains if they are lucky. In 20 weeks. Without training. Just drugs. A follow-up analysis of the study showed clearly that the increasing doses of anabolics were associated with muscle fiber growth in both Type I and Type II fibers and increased myonuclear number. This is real growth from fairly moderate doses of steroids without any training.


Boris - That's insane.

I've done as you've instructed and let it sink in. I'd heard this was possible before but never seen a study on it.

Have you read the full study?

17 pounds of muscle from 600 mg a week, without training, over 20 weeks. The increase in leg press strength as well is insane. Without training.

Now just imagine what would have happened if they'd trained on a reasonably well thought out HIT routine twice a week during that same 20 week period.

Next time I hear someone spouting off about how it's not all about drugs, you still have to work hard, I'm going to know with even more certainty that they talking nonsense.


Yes, I read the whole study. It is available at https://www.physiology.org/...001.281.6.E1172

61 men aged 18-35 years, with prior weight-lifting experience and normal testosterone level. 20 week, double-blind, randomized study. The participants were asked not to undertake strength training or moderate-to-heavy endurance exercise during the study, the instructions were reinforced every 4 weeks.
Calorie intake at 36 kcal/kg/day, protein at 1.2g/kg/day. Weekly injections of 25, 50, 125, 300 or 600 mg of testosterone enanthate. Fat-free mass and fat mass measured by underwater weighing and DEXA. Total thigh muscle and quadriceps muscle volumes were measured by MRI scanning. Leg press testing using 1RM method with a progressive warm-up, and re-test within 7 days (but not sooner than 2 days) to assure reliability.
Those receiving 300 or 600 mg a week gained 5.2 kg and 7.9 kg of fat-free mass and lost 0.5kg and 1.1kg of fat mass respectively.
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Chris H

entsminger wrote:
== Scott==
It?s pretty clear that steroids effect the heart in negative ways but I?m wondering how much a life time of gut busting , red in the face going all out workouts has on the heart it?s self with out any drugs? I?ve often sat there after a balls to the wall killing myself workout and wondered if years of doing such workouts could actually cause similar damage to the heart with out the drugs?


have to agree with you Scott.
Pushing the envelope week in, week out for decades is not natural or possibly desirable, even age related cardio more than a few times a week ?
Consider, irrespective of lifespan in Western countries, that we are technically middle aged between 25 - 30.
50% metabolic junk by 50 ?
Health and longevity is not necessarily correlated to fitness and performance, as we age.
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entsminger

Virginia, USA

Chris H wrote:
entsminger wrote:
== Scott==
It?s pretty clear that steroids effect the heart in negative ways but I?m wondering how much a life time of gut busting , red in the face going all out workouts has on the heart it?s self with out any drugs? I?ve often sat there after a balls to the wall killing myself workout and wondered if years of doing such workouts could actually cause similar damage to the heart with out the drugs?

have to agree with you Scott.
Pushing the envelope week in, week out for decades is not natural or possibly desirable, even age related cardio more than a few times a week ?
Consider, irrespective of lifespan in Western countries, that we are technically middle aged between 25 - 30.
50% metabolic junk by 50 ?
Health and longevity is not necessarily correlated to fitness and performance, as we age.


== Scott==
When I was much younger I didn?t see any problem with all the straining , bust ass type training but now days when I bend over to pick up a heavy weight and start to do some heavy presses or something I can feel the pressure in my head and so forth and I just have to wonder if doing that over and over again might not be such a good idea?
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