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HIT vs Strength Training vs Hypertrophy
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Daoust

I have been doing HIT full body and split routine for almost a year now . From my training, I have gained strength but no weigth.

I m 5ft9, 163lbs, 38 yr old with 7/100 body fat, i started to calculate my calories with a goal around 2800 every days. 60% carbs, 20% protein, 20% fat for near 1 months. At 2800cal, I did not gain any body weigth and my body fat goes from. 7.8 to 7% (messure with a skindex).

So my question is, how does HIT worked for you, did you only gain strength or you also gained lean body weigth. Should I jump my calories to 3200? Does my macro should be change ? Is there any way of stimulate the hypertrophy with HIT training?

Thank you
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BorisV

Maryland, USA

Daoust wrote:
I have been doing HIT full body and split routine for almost a year now . From my training, I have gained strength but no weigth.

I m 5ft9, 163lbs, 38 yr old with 7/100 body fat, i started to calculate my calories with a goal around 2800 every days. 60% carbs, 20% protein, 20% fat for near 1 months. At 2800cal, I did not gain any body weigth and my body fat goes from. 7.8 to 7% (messure with a skindex).

So my question is, how does HIT worked for you, did you only gain strength or you also gained lean body weigth. Should I jump my calories to 3200? Does my macro should be change ? Is there any way of stimulate the hypertrophy with HIT training?

Thank you


My two cents:
1. Standard HIT is not optimal for hypertrophy/bodybuilding purposes due to insufficient number of effective contractions/reps and lack of variation. I did get stronger, but looked worse / same on HIT than on other methods.
2. Without drugs, you may be close to your genetic potential in relation to muscle mass. My stats are close to yours although I am one inch shorter and 8 lbs lighter. And I don?t expect to weigh even 170lbs at 7% body fat. That is impossible. If you look at the measurements of Mr. America winners from 40s-50s, who were the top specimen at that times with superior genetics, you can adjust your own expectations downwards. I presume even they exaggerated their weight and measurements, so common folks can?t weigh 200lbs or so at 5?9? with 7% body fat and 17-18 inch arm.

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Crotalus

I agree with Boris on this for the same reasons , though I bought into HIT being the only way for years and years. The theory was sound and Dr. Ken explained the science behind getting bigger and stronger so well that nothing else seemed to be needed than being progressive on the basic compound movements for whatever the purpose for your lifting weights was.

Do I regret getting into HIT ? Not at all, I believe it builds a sound base, work ethic and does get you bigger and stronger in the most efficient way.
I think all training should be this way for the first several years or if you're training to be stronger for a sport.

Though I think it's a great way to train for those reasons, I do not believe it's optimal for the body building 'look'. Like Boris said , not enough contractions or variation for optimal muscle development - despite what my main 'Guru' Dr. Ken instructed .... and I mean NO disrespect to him about this. It made perfect sense on paper , just didn't pan out in real life - for body building purposes.

My only HIT regrets has to do with myself staying on it too long and not be willing to listen or do anything other than HIT for 15 years. That was MY mistake, not HIT training.

If you do not already know of him and methods he advocates for bodybuilding, look into Brian Johnson's stuff of Zone Training, and High Density Training . it was the best training advice I got since discovering HIT almost 38 years ago.

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Equity

Daoust wrote:
I have been doing HIT full body and split routine for almost a year now . From my training, I have gained strength but no weigth.

I m 5ft9, 163lbs, 38 yr old with 7/100 body fat, i started to calculate my calories with a goal around 2800 every days. 60% carbs, 20% protein, 20% fat for near 1 months. At 2800cal, I did not gain any body weigth and my body fat goes from. 7.8 to 7% (messure with a skindex).

So my question is, how does HIT worked for you, did you only gain strength or you also gained lean body weigth. Should I jump my calories to 3200? Does my macro should be change ? Is there any way of stimulate the hypertrophy with HIT training?

Thank you


Not enough volume.

Try 3 sets of an exercise with perhaps the last set to failure. Don't worry about getting in and aout in 20-30 minutes.

Keep the calories where they are for now. If I'm wrong then try as you suggest.

Contrary to what some HITERS claim; doing 3 sets (with the same weight) does not equal 3 times the strain on recovery ability vs 1 set TF. Mike Mentzer carries the blame for this idea BTW but I digress.


Happy training.


Regards.
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Nwlifter

We can?t say no to HIT working for gaining size, just saying HIT is way too general. HIT is High Intensity Training and there are a LOT of ways to setup high intensity training. Hundreds of people gained a ton of size using ?to failure? (HIT) training, but it?s how they set it up, and of course the biggest issue was their individual genetics and gaining ability.
I doubt anyone can win the Mr. O using a super minimal consolidation type of HIT, but lots of guys are winning or placing high in contests using other forms (like DC training, or the way the guys on Professionmuscle train). A member on here, TSG posted his HIT routine he used and he has some great development. I would say it?s a LOT about fine tuning a routine for yourself.
If I do the minimal HIT stuff, I gain no size, but if I hit each muscle a couple times a week with a few exercises each time, then I grow.
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Daoust

Thank you all for all the knowledge you share to me.

Like I have said, I m at 7% body fat on my skindex skin caliper, I have 1.5 inch difference on my relax bicep vs contracted bicep(from the last book of ellington it should be around 7%) but on my scale, it say around 14.5 to 15%, i don t know what number I should care about but I don t look like the physics of the old bodybuilder of the 40-50.

I m currently following the 3 days split routine of john heart (mr america heart), like the full body workout of Ellington Dardden, I m gaining strength but not that much size if any. So if I understand my body , than Hit 1 set to failure is good for strength for me. So If I want to gain size you all belive that I should do more volume? What about 2 sets to faillure like Dorian Yate is it too much on the nerves system for a naty? Some of you recomand that I try 3 sets by body parts, should they all be at the same weigth? Can it be a reverse pyramid set, or it should be a progressive set?


Last question, what is your belive on the natual bodybuilder like Jason Gallant, John Heart, Jay Vincent and Markus Reinhard? They look massive, 3 of them train HIT and 1 high vollume. Markus Reinhard have himself claim to have use steroid but most of is carer to be naty.

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Rikus

Crotalus wrote:
If you do not already know of him and methods he advocates for bodybuilding, look into Brian Johnson's stuff of Zone Training, and High Density Training . it was the best training advice I got since discovering HIT almost 38 years ago.


I second Brian Johnson's High Density Training. Really pleased with that find. His ideas matched with what I already had worked out, that variation and intensity techniques helped me gain size. But I got more ideas from his books for variation than what i had come up with from Dardens books or on my own.

Previously, I only gained size with intensity techniques I took from Darden's books such as 21s and drop sets. The progress (measurable micro measurements on a tape measure) would only last a a few sessions. Then I'd switch to something else. E.g. 21s and negatives for a few sessions and then drops sets for a few sessions. Pre-exhaustion aswell, such as leg extensions followed by a compound leg exercise.

I'm not that strong, but I got the hang of gaining muscle. But then....that's what I mostly wanted.



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Nwlifter

Daoust wrote:
Thank you all for all the knowledge you share to me.

Like I have said, I m at 7% body fat on my skindex skin caliper, I have 1.5 inch difference on my relax bicep vs contracted bicep(from the last book of ellington it should be around 7%) but on my scale, it say around 14.5 to 15%, i don t know what number I should care about but I don t look like the physics of the old bodybuilder of the 40-50.

I m currently following the 3 days split routine of john heart (mr america heart), like the full body workout of Ellington Dardden, I m gaining strength but not that much size if any. So if I understand my body , than Hit 1 set to failure is good for strength for me. So If I want to gain size you all belive that I should do more volume? What about 2 sets to faillure like Dorian Yate is it too much on the nerves system for a naty? Some of you recomand that I try 3 sets by body parts, should they all be at the same weigth? Can it be a reverse pyramid set, or it should be a progressive set?


Last question, what is your belive on the natual bodybuilder like Jason Gallant, John Heart, Jay Vincent and Markus Reinhard? They look massive, 3 of them train HIT and 1 high vollume. Markus Reinhard have himself claim to have use steroid but most of is carer to be naty.



I'm not sure why some are able to gain mass on those really low frequency super low volume workouts. Those who can though seem pretty rare. Many have posted on here how that type of training caused strength gains with little to no size increases. More of 'something' seems to be needed. It is for me, either in the actual category of volume or increasing work via HIT methods. Either way is the same effect. More 'time' working the muscles. More sets, or drop sets, or rest pause, etc. Or a few exercises per muscle for a set or two each.
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Equity


So If I want to gain size you all belive that I should do more volume? What about 2 sets to faillure like Dorian Yate is it too much on the nerves system for a naty? Some of you recomand that I try 3 sets by body parts, should they all be at the same weigth? Can it be a reverse pyramid set, or it should be a progressive set?


As a simple experiment yes use the same weight for the 3 sets.

Don't go to failure on the first two; save it for the last.

Muscles have a massive blood supply and when trained constantly can recover far quicker than your nervous system. It's that last rep when you fail that will tax your nervous system but at the same time this is when the fast twitch fibers are activated, which is essential for optimal progress.

I find it funny sometimes that the slow and intermediate fibers are overlooked in terms of overall muscle growth yet they comprise far more of the actual muscle in number than the faster twitch fibers. The two previous sets are to afford the slow and intermediated fibers enough work.

My opinion.

Regards.



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Gainz

https://youtu.be/5lskvS19CIo
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Equity

Nwlifter wrote:
Daoust wrote:
Thank you all for all the knowledge you share to me.

Like I have said, I m at 7% body fat on my skindex skin caliper, I have 1.5 inch difference on my relax bicep vs contracted bicep(from the last book of ellington it should be around 7%) but on my scale, it say around 14.5 to 15%, i don t know what number I should care about but I don t look like the physics of the old bodybuilder of the 40-50.

I m currently following the 3 days split routine of john heart (mr america heart), like the full body workout of Ellington Dardden, I m gaining strength but not that much size if any. So if I understand my body , than Hit 1 set to failure is good for strength for me. So If I want to gain size you all belive that I should do more volume? What about 2 sets to faillure like Dorian Yate is it too much on the nerves system for a naty? Some of you recomand that I try 3 sets by body parts, should they all be at the same weigth? Can it be a reverse pyramid set, or it should be a progressive set?


Last question, what is your belive on the natual bodybuilder like Jason Gallant, John Heart, Jay Vincent and Markus Reinhard? They look massive, 3 of them train HIT and 1 high vollume. Markus Reinhard have himself claim to have use steroid but most of is carer to be naty.



I'm not sure why some are able to gain mass on those really low frequency super low volume workouts. Those who can though seem pretty rare. Many have posted on here how that type of training caused strength gains with little to no size increases. More of 'something' seems to be needed. It is for me, either in the actual category of volume or increasing work via HIT methods. Either way is the same effect. More 'time' working the muscles. More sets, or drop sets, or rest pause, etc. Or a few exercises per muscle for a set or two each.


I think in the long run HIT extending methods are counterproductive, If one looks at the law of muscle fiber recruitment then equates that to say for example a 10 rep set then I truly believe the lower threshold fibers do not get enough work to optimise muscle size. How many people here cycle regularly? I bet you've got decent leg development from that even if you don't squat 12 reps to failure.

That's not to say your maximum leg strength is realised but then again it depends on how you cycle, whether you use high gears, go up hills and sprint all out occasionally etc, perhaps then hitting the fast twitchers.

Regards.
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BorisV

Maryland, USA

Daoust wrote:
Thank you all for all the knowledge you share to me.

Like I have said, I m at 7% body fat on my skindex skin caliper, I have 1.5 inch difference on my relax bicep vs contracted bicep(from the last book of ellington it should be around 7%) but on my scale, it say around 14.5 to 15%, i don t know what number I should care about but I don t look like the physics of the old bodybuilder of the 40-50.

I m currently following the 3 days split routine of john heart (mr america heart), like the full body workout of Ellington Dardden, I m gaining strength but not that much size if any. So if I understand my body , than Hit 1 set to failure is good for strength for me. So If I want to gain size you all belive that I should do more volume? What about 2 sets to faillure like Dorian Yate is it too much on the nerves system for a naty? Some of you recomand that I try 3 sets by body parts, should they all be at the same weigth? Can it be a reverse pyramid set, or it should be a progressive set?


Last question, what is your belive on the natual bodybuilder like Jason Gallant, John Heart, Jay Vincent and Markus Reinhard? They look massive, 3 of them train HIT and 1 high vollume. Markus Reinhard have himself claim to have use steroid but most of is carer to be naty.



I think you have a body fat of 7% if your waist is 42.0-42.5% of your height.
I use three methods (calipers, Tanita scale and waist to height ratio) to check my body fat levels.
I don?t know /follow the guys you mentioned, but I know that every time I see cannon ball / 3D deltoids with a very low body fat level, this is obviously not natty. 99%of the naturals do not that super 3D look in delts. And delts are the prime area of androgen receptors - they swell every time you introduce steroids. Not sure if Nattyornot published anything about Vincent, Heart or Gallant. I stopped looking for today?s bodybuilders. For any inspiration I can check photos of athletes of early 20 century, pre-steroid area. Nothing has changed/improved in human physiology, drugs change things dramatically and literally overnight. But people still think that all those ladies with exaggerated bottoms who post their pics from the gym on social media got their assets doing squats, lunges and glute raises. Amazing how people are naive sometimes...


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BorisV

Maryland, USA

Daoust wrote:
Thank you all for all the knowledge you share to me.

Like I have said, I m at 7% body fat on my skindex skin caliper, I have 1.5 inch difference on my relax bicep vs contracted bicep(from the last book of ellington it should be around 7%) but on my scale, it say around 14.5 to 15%, i don t know what number I should care about but I don t look like the physics of the old bodybuilder of the 40-50.

I m currently following the 3 days split routine of john heart (mr america heart), like the full body workout of Ellington Dardden, I m gaining strength but not that much size if any. So if I understand my body , than Hit 1 set to failure is good for strength for me. So If I want to gain size you all belive that I should do more volume? What about 2 sets to faillure like Dorian Yate is it too much on the nerves system for a naty? Some of you recomand that I try 3 sets by body parts, should they all be at the same weigth? Can it be a reverse pyramid set, or it should be a progressive set?


Last question, what is your belive on the natual bodybuilder like Jason Gallant, John Heart, Jay Vincent and Markus Reinhard? They look massive, 3 of them train HIT and 1 high vollume. Markus Reinhard have himself claim to have use steroid but most of is carer to be naty.



On another note, intensity is not the primary factor. Even Arthur Jones in 90s said that the answer is inroad and not intensity. You don?t need to work out with ultimate intensity in order to gain muscle mass. Quite often, in the contrary is true: more volume, more pump, more contractions, and variation to prevent homeostasis. Bodybuilders from 50-60s were listening to their bodies and knew how many sets and reps were enough for today. And they were training with reasonable amounts of sets and reps per body part: not too little and not too much. Strength and muscle mass are two different concepts. your own experience clearly shows that stronger muscles are not necessarily bigger muscles.

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Daoust

Does zone training is the same as high density training? I bougth the book of Brian D Johnston, I will take a look.
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Equity

Equity wrote:
Nwlifter wrote:
Daoust wrote:
Thank you all for all the knowledge you share to me.

Like I have said, I m at 7% body fat on my skindex skin caliper, I have 1.5 inch difference on my relax bicep vs contracted bicep(from the last book of ellington it should be around 7%) but on my scale, it say around 14.5 to 15%, i don t know what number I should care about but I don t look like the physics of the old bodybuilder of the 40-50.

I m currently following the 3 days split routine of john heart (mr america heart), like the full body workout of Ellington Dardden, I m gaining strength but not that much size if any. So if I understand my body , than Hit 1 set to failure is good for strength for me. So If I want to gain size you all belive that I should do more volume? What about 2 sets to faillure like Dorian Yate is it too much on the nerves system for a naty? Some of you recomand that I try 3 sets by body parts, should they all be at the same weigth? Can it be a reverse pyramid set, or it should be a progressive set?


Last question, what is your belive on the natual bodybuilder like Jason Gallant, John Heart, Jay Vincent and Markus Reinhard? They look massive, 3 of them train HIT and 1 high vollume. Markus Reinhard have himself claim to have use steroid but most of is carer to be naty.



I'm not sure why some are able to gain mass on those really low frequency super low volume workouts. Those who can though seem pretty rare. Many have posted on here how that type of training caused strength gains with little to no size increases. More of 'something' seems to be needed. It is for me, either in the actual category of volume or increasing work via HIT methods. Either way is the same effect. More 'time' working the muscles. More sets, or drop sets, or rest pause, etc. Or a few exercises per muscle for a set or two each.

I think in the long run HIT extending methods are counterproductive, If one looks at the law of muscle fiber recruitment then equates that to say for example a 10 rep set then I truly believe the lower threshold fibers do not get enough work to optimise muscle size. How many people here cycle regularly? I bet you've got decent leg development from that even if you don't squat 12 reps to failure.

That's not to say your maximum leg strength is realised but then again it depends on how you cycle, whether you use high gears, go up hills and sprint all out occasionally etc, perhaps then hitting the fast twitchers.

Regards.


I meant to say intensity extenders are overkill for the fast twitch fibers and the nervous system. Sorry for any confusion.
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HeavyHitter32

Equity wrote:


As a simple experiment yes use the same weight for the 3 sets.

Don't go to failure on the first two; save it for the last.

Muscles have a massive blood supply and when trained constantly can recover far quicker than your nervous system. It's that last rep when you fail that will tax your nervous system but at the same time this is when the fast twitch fibers are activated, which is essential for optimal progress.

I find it funny sometimes that the slow and intermediate fibers are overlooked in terms of overall muscle growth yet they comprise far more of the actual muscle in number than the faster twitch fibers. The two previous sets are to afford the slow and intermediated fibers enough work.

My opinion.

Regards.





I think your recommendation (3 sets, only the last to failure) is a better way to train for size vs 1 set to failure. Even if the first two are warm-ups, but intense allow for some fatigue and pump.
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Nwlifter

Equity wrote:
Nwlifter wrote:
Daoust wrote:
Thank you all for all the knowledge you share to me.

Like I have said, I m at 7% body fat on my skindex skin caliper, I have 1.5 inch difference on my relax bicep vs contracted bicep(from the last book of ellington it should be around 7%) but on my scale, it say around 14.5 to 15%, i don t know what number I should care about but I don t look like the physics of the old bodybuilder of the 40-50.

I m currently following the 3 days split routine of john heart (mr america heart), like the full body workout of Ellington Dardden, I m gaining strength but not that much size if any. So if I understand my body , than Hit 1 set to failure is good for strength for me. So If I want to gain size you all belive that I should do more volume? What about 2 sets to faillure like Dorian Yate is it too much on the nerves system for a naty? Some of you recomand that I try 3 sets by body parts, should they all be at the same weigth? Can it be a reverse pyramid set, or it should be a progressive set?


Last question, what is your belive on the natual bodybuilder like Jason Gallant, John Heart, Jay Vincent and Markus Reinhard? They look massive, 3 of them train HIT and 1 high vollume. Markus Reinhard have himself claim to have use steroid but most of is carer to be naty.



I'm not sure why some are able to gain mass on those really low frequency super low volume workouts. Those who can though seem pretty rare. Many have posted on here how that type of training caused strength gains with little to no size increases. More of 'something' seems to be needed. It is for me, either in the actual category of volume or increasing work via HIT methods. Either way is the same effect. More 'time' working the muscles. More sets, or drop sets, or rest pause, etc. Or a few exercises per muscle for a set or two each.

I think in the long run HIT extending methods are counterproductive, If one looks at the law of muscle fiber recruitment then equates that to say for example a 10 rep set then I truly believe the lower threshold fibers do not get enough work to optimise muscle size. How many people here cycle regularly? I bet you've got decent leg development from that even if you don't squat 12 reps to failure.

That's not to say your maximum leg strength is realised but then again it depends on how you cycle, whether you use high gears, go up hills and sprint all out occasionally etc, perhaps then hitting the fast twitchers.

Regards.


Yep, for those that can handle super effort, those intensity extenders obviously do work (look at the guys on the intensemuscle forum, or professionalmuscle forum), me nope, I can't recover. When I do rest pause, I do non failure rest pause just to get more 'work' in and stimulate growth.
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Average Al

Daoust wrote:
Thank you all for all the knowledge you share to me.

Like I have said, I m at 7% body fat on my skindex skin caliper, I have 1.5 inch difference on my relax bicep vs contracted bicep(from the last book of ellington it should be around 7%) but on my scale, it say around 14.5 to 15%, i don t know what number I should care about but I don t look like the physics of the old bodybuilder of the 40-50.

I m currently following the 3 days split routine of john heart (mr america heart), like the full body workout of Ellington Dardden, I m gaining strength but not that much size if any. So if I understand my body , than Hit 1 set to failure is good for strength for me. So If I want to gain size you all belive that I should do more volume? What about 2 sets to faillure like Dorian Yate is it too much on the nerves system for a naty? Some of you recomand that I try 3 sets by body parts, should they all be at the same weigth? Can it be a reverse pyramid set, or it should be a progressive set?


Last question, what is your belive on the natual bodybuilder like Jason Gallant, John Heart, Jay Vincent and Markus Reinhard? They look massive, 3 of them train HIT and 1 high vollume. Markus Reinhard have himself claim to have use steroid but most of is carer to be naty.



The only way to find out how your body responds to these things is to try them on yourself.

I understand the urge to copy the training methods of those who have the kind of size and physique that you want, but you are likely to be disappointed, especially if you have been training for awhile, and haven't seen indications that you have good potential for building muscle.

By analogy, one might observe that professional basketball players are quite tall. But that doesn't mean that you can get taller by playing basketball, or training like professional basketball players.

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BorisV

Maryland, USA

Daoust wrote:
Does zone training is the same as high density training? I bougth the book of Brian D Johnston, I will take a look.


Not exactly. There were some techniques mentioned in the High Density Training book which included zone training; but I would better read three Zone Training books on their own in addition to High Density Training. Zone Training is another framework of training with quite a number of specific methods or techniques, if you like, of working in zones vs full ROM.
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hit4me

Florida, USA

Average Al wrote:
Daoust wrote:
Thank you all for all the knowledge you share to me.

Like I have said, I m at 7% body fat on my skindex skin caliper, I have 1.5 inch difference on my relax bicep vs contracted bicep(from the last book of ellington it should be around 7%) but on my scale, it say around 14.5 to 15%, i don t know what number I should care about but I don t look like the physics of the old bodybuilder of the 40-50.

I m currently following the 3 days split routine of john heart (mr america heart), like the full body workout of Ellington Dardden, I m gaining strength but not that much size if any. So if I understand my body , than Hit 1 set to failure is good for strength for me. So If I want to gain size you all belive that I should do more volume? What about 2 sets to faillure like Dorian Yate is it too much on the nerves system for a naty? Some of you recomand that I try 3 sets by body parts, should they all be at the same weigth? Can it be a reverse pyramid set, or it should be a progressive set?


Last question, what is your belive on the natual bodybuilder like Jason Gallant, John Heart, Jay Vincent and Markus Reinhard? They look massive, 3 of them train HIT and 1 high vollume. Markus Reinhard have himself claim to have use steroid but most of is carer to be naty.



The only way to find out how your body responds to these things is to try them on yourself.

I understand the urge to copy the training methods of those who have the kind of size and physique that you want, but you are likely to be disappointed, especially if you have been training for awhile, and haven't seen indications that you have good potential for building muscle.

By analogy, one might observe that professional basketball players are quite tall. But that doesn't mean that you can get taller by playing basketball, or training like professional basketball players.



totally agree, you have to experiment to find what works for yourself.....I found have that Darden's 30-10-30 method is my preferred method of training at this moment in time, I noticed loss of bodyfat, more definition, strength increases that are relative, its more efficient and safe on the body too, this way of training also allows me to enjoy other things in life....as I have seen numerous people in the gym working out endlessly and making no improvements that I can see and there are others that I see making nice improvements

some people enjoy heavy duty, some enjoy 6day a week split routines...experiment and find what works for your specific goals and make sure you enjoy what you are doing, as if you don't enjoy the workout...then you will lose interest in the workout
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BorisV

Maryland, USA

Gainz wrote:
https://youtu.be/...vS19CIo


Leaving aside my attitude towards Mentzer brothers, I don't like such kind of videos. Too vulgar and derogatory for me. Mike Mentzer Heavy Duty system is nothing more than a "logical" development of Arthur Jones' views regarding intensity and recovery. I know a lot of people who are happy with Mentzer's type of training, because strength and bulk for them is everything; they don't care about being lean, about proportion and symmetry etc. All they want to be strong and big.
P.S. I wonder what would happen to the authors of this video if they publish it before Mentzers passing.
P.P.S. I even more curious what would happen to them if they made a similar video on Arthur Jones, when he was still with us...
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Gainz

Nwlifter wrote:
Equity wrote:
Nwlifter wrote:
Daoust wrote:
Thank you all for all the knowledge you share to me.

Like I have said, I m at 7% body fat on my skindex skin caliper, I have 1.5 inch difference on my relax bicep vs contracted bicep(from the last book of ellington it should be around 7%) but on my scale, it say around 14.5 to 15%, i don t know what number I should care about but I don t look like the physics of the old bodybuilder of the 40-50.

I m currently following the 3 days split routine of john heart (mr america heart), like the full body workout of Ellington Dardden, I m gaining strength but not that much size if any. So if I understand my body , than Hit 1 set to failure is good for strength for me. So If I want to gain size you all belive that I should do more volume? What about 2 sets to faillure like Dorian Yate is it too much on the nerves system for a naty? Some of you recomand that I try 3 sets by body parts, should they all be at the same weigth? Can it be a reverse pyramid set, or it should be a progressive set?


Last question, what is your belive on the natual bodybuilder like Jason Gallant, John Heart, Jay Vincent and Markus Reinhard? They look massive, 3 of them train HIT and 1 high vollume. Markus Reinhard have himself claim to have use steroid but most of is carer to be naty.



I'm not sure why some are able to gain mass on those really low frequency super low volume workouts. Those who can though seem pretty rare. Many have posted on here how that type of training caused strength gains with little to no size increases. More of 'something' seems to be needed. It is for me, either in the actual category of volume or increasing work via HIT methods. Either way is the same effect. More 'time' working the muscles. More sets, or drop sets, or rest pause, etc. Or a few exercises per muscle for a set or two each.

I think in the long run HIT extending methods are counterproductive, If one looks at the law of muscle fiber recruitment then equates that to say for example a 10 rep set then I truly believe the lower threshold fibers do not get enough work to optimise muscle size. How many people here cycle regularly? I bet you've got decent leg development from that even if you don't squat 12 reps to failure.

That's not to say your maximum leg strength is realised but then again it depends on how you cycle, whether you use high gears, go up hills and sprint all out occasionally etc, perhaps then hitting the fast twitchers.

Regards.

Yep, for those that can handle super effort, those intensity extenders obviously do work (look at the guys on the intensemuscle forum, or professionalmuscle forum), me nope, I can't recover. When I do rest pause, I do non failure rest pause just to get more 'work' in and stimulate growth.


I might actually give that rest pause ntf a go Ron. In theory, it could mean a major decrease in CNS stress accompanied by very little loss in terms of muscle stimulation.
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ron33

HeavyHitter32 wrote:
Equity wrote:


As a simple experiment yes use the same weight for the 3 sets.

Don't go to failure on the first two; save it for the last.

Muscles have a massive blood supply and when trained constantly can recover far quicker than your nervous system. It's that last rep when you fail that will tax your nervous system but at the same time this is when the fast twitch fibers are activated, which is essential for optimal progress.

I find it funny sometimes that the slow and intermediate fibers are overlooked in terms of overall muscle growth yet they comprise far more of the actual muscle in number than the faster twitch fibers. The two previous sets are to afford the slow and intermediated fibers enough work.

My opinion.

Regards.





I think your recommendation (3 sets, only the last to failure) is a better way to train for size vs 1 set to failure. Even if the first two are warm-ups, but intense allow for some fatigue and pump.

Used, that method when I was young and healthy with great success . on last set would up the weight when I could do 10-12 reps . Became pretty strong and eventually started doing up 2 twenty reps on last set . Had pretty good strength and endurance , only guys in gym I trained at that used heavier weights, out weighed me by 50-60 pounds and were heavy juicers trying to be pro bbers .
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Nwlifter

Gainz wrote:
Nwlifter wrote:
Equity wrote:
Nwlifter wrote:
Daoust wrote:
Thank you all for all the knowledge you share to me.

Like I have said, I m at 7% body fat on my skindex skin caliper, I have 1.5 inch difference on my relax bicep vs contracted bicep(from the last book of ellington it should be around 7%) but on my scale, it say around 14.5 to 15%, i don t know what number I should care about but I don t look like the physics of the old bodybuilder of the 40-50.

I m currently following the 3 days split routine of john heart (mr america heart), like the full body workout of Ellington Dardden, I m gaining strength but not that much size if any. So if I understand my body , than Hit 1 set to failure is good for strength for me. So If I want to gain size you all belive that I should do more volume? What about 2 sets to faillure like Dorian Yate is it too much on the nerves system for a naty? Some of you recomand that I try 3 sets by body parts, should they all be at the same weigth? Can it be a reverse pyramid set, or it should be a progressive set?


Last question, what is your belive on the natual bodybuilder like Jason Gallant, John Heart, Jay Vincent and Markus Reinhard? They look massive, 3 of them train HIT and 1 high vollume. Markus Reinhard have himself claim to have use steroid but most of is carer to be naty.



I'm not sure why some are able to gain mass on those really low frequency super low volume workouts. Those who can though seem pretty rare. Many have posted on here how that type of training caused strength gains with little to no size increases. More of 'something' seems to be needed. It is for me, either in the actual category of volume or increasing work via HIT methods. Either way is the same effect. More 'time' working the muscles. More sets, or drop sets, or rest pause, etc. Or a few exercises per muscle for a set or two each.

I think in the long run HIT extending methods are counterproductive, If one looks at the law of muscle fiber recruitment then equates that to say for example a 10 rep set then I truly believe the lower threshold fibers do not get enough work to optimise muscle size. How many people here cycle regularly? I bet you've got decent leg development from that even if you don't squat 12 reps to failure.

That's not to say your maximum leg strength is realised but then again it depends on how you cycle, whether you use high gears, go up hills and sprint all out occasionally etc, perhaps then hitting the fast twitchers.

Regards.

Yep, for those that can handle super effort, those intensity extenders obviously do work (look at the guys on the intensemuscle forum, or professionalmuscle forum), me nope, I can't recover. When I do rest pause, I do non failure rest pause just to get more 'work' in and stimulate growth.

I might actually give that rest pause ntf a go Ron. In theory, it could mean a major decrease in CNS stress accompanied by very little loss in terms of muscle stimulation.


Cool, if you do,let me know how it goes. I used it for a long time in the 90's, had great gains
6-8 reps not failure but still close enough. Rest 20 seconds, more reps, rest, more reps. Got some good growth from it. And it didn't fry me like failure stuff.
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Daoust

So since I start that post, I have done 2 workouts and change 1 key elements. There is 3 way as I understand to raise the intensity.
1= raise the weigth
2= raise the number of repetition
3= shorten the time between set

So when I started the HIT, I was able to do the full body routine in the 20minutes range. As I go foward in the week of training, my strength goes up but my rest was higher.

Now than I m on mr america heart 3 days split routine, I m taking rest between set and I belive it was a mistake so I try to reduce the rest at maximum, like the time I need to set the next weigth for next exercise. So after my training , I saw 2 things: my weigth was lower du to less rest time and my pump fell better.

Now I don t know if that extra pump will help me but my training was more hard on my energy level.
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