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Neck Training in 2020
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ATP 4 Vitality

Sitting vs. Standing position for neck training.

Point # 1

I noticed the 5-way Rogers Athletics neck machine utilizes a sitting position.

And,

Shrugs are performed while in this sitting position

Point # 2

I have the combo Nautilus leverage shrug/row machine. This machine utilizes the sitting position while shrugging also.

And,

I use a standing position instead on this machine., as this allows for increased lower back stability while performing shrugs.

Standing generally increases overall stability, which is something desirable when neck training in my opinion.

Sitting may increase localized (neck) muscle activity due to isolation?s increased neural drive. In other words, the brain can concentrate more fully on the neck muscles while sitting.

decisions decisions!

https://m.youtube.com/...ime_continue=31
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MikaelPR

A few years ago, I emailed Joel Waldman who many in HIT circles consider to have the most impressive neck they?ve ever seen, and asked specifically what he did to build his. He replied that using his Nautilus Rotary Neck machine took his development to new heights.
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ATP 4 Vitality

MikaelPR wrote:
A few years ago, I emailed Joel Waldman who many in HIT circles consider to have the most impressive neck they?ve ever seen, and asked specifically what he did to build his. He replied that using his Nautilus Rotary Neck machine took his development to new heights.


Joel Waldman posted his neck routine in this post

http://www.drdarden.com/...pageNo=2#bottom
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1958

Texas, USA

Wow! Marc,his neck is almost as big as yours,yet he provides photographic proof!!!
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ATP 4 Vitality

1958 wrote:
Wow! Marc,his neck is almost as big as yours,



Almost!



yet he provides photographic proof!!!


And what does he get in return?
Your approval!
Wow! What beautiful necks!

I much prefer this photo!

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epdavis7

Google Bodybuilder Jeff King and Neck. His neck is huge. From a bodybuilding standpoint it was not very aesthetic, but I'm not a bodybuilder
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ATP 4 Vitality

While experimenting with neck isometrics, I have found a need for a comfortable apparatus to attach various tension resistance bands to enable placing tension on the neck. An arm occlusion band seemed perfect upon a trial experiment. I looped the green resistance (50 pounds) band around the top chin bar on the Nautilus OME machine (for up and down adjustments) , then unhook the kaatsu band and loop this through the other end of green RB. Then loosely attach the kaatsu band around the head for comfort.

Place as much tension on the neck as safety allows.
I used a green band stretched tight for a 3 minute timed isometric neck extension.
When the burning sensation from the isometric hold starts in the neck, use slight rotation both ways for further inroad.
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epdavis7

Here's a pic of Jeff King. His neck was overdeveloped for his body from an aesthetics perspective. If he had shaved his head he would have looked like a huge cawk lol.
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ATP 4 Vitality

One of the main reasons for serious neck training is to increase blood flow into and out of the brain. This allows more oxygen and fuel to be delivered, all the while increasing waste removal. Neck training can also reduce cognitive decline, ie. dementia?

I do not care for lateral flexions which could possibly impede blood flow to the brain. The main blood vessels leading to and exiting the brain go through holes in the skull. Lateral flexion could once again impair or even damage critical blood vessels.

The neck muscles have redundant functionality, therefore dedicated flexion/extension with slight rotations seems enough for mature non-athletes such as myself.

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ATP 4 Vitality

The trapezius muscle is one of the largest upper body muscles. The muscle helps with posture and breathing. This muscle is bigger than the chest but receives much less bro-science training research. This muscle greatly facilitates neck function.

The best ever trap machine ever built is the Nautilus OME by none other than the genius inventor Arthur Jones. I hook a parallel grip lat bar to the OME lever. I also use lifting hooks which enables much longer isometric holds.


https://m.youtube.com/...time_continue=2
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Average Al

ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
One of the main reasons for serious neck training is to increase blood flow into and out of the brain.


Really? Exercise (in general) is associated with better blood flow to the brain and cognitive improvement. But neck training specifically? Can you cite any references?

What about the association of neck size with sleep apnea?
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ATP 4 Vitality

Average Al wrote:
ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
One of the main reasons for serious neck training is to increase blood flow into and out of the brain.


Really? Exercise (in general) is associated with better blood flow to the brain and cognitive improvement. But neck training specifically? Can you cite any references?

What about the association of neck size with sleep apnea?


@ Al,

I can see you did not read my original post where I referred to Rogers Athletics as the leader in neck training info. Someone changed the original post, so I can not fully blame you.

Look at Rogers Athletics
Then, updates
Blog,
The number one reason to train the neck.

Sleep apnea? I am size 22 inch shirts, with no sleep apnea, so I could care less?

Why do not you research this?

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frostyF

Arkansas, USA

ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
The trapezius muscle is one of the largest upper body muscles. The muscle helps with posture and breathing. This muscle is bigger than the chest but receives much less bro-science training research. This muscle greatly facilitates neck function.

The best ever trap machine ever built is the Nautilus OME by none other than the genius inventor Arthur Jones. I hook a parallel grip lat bar to the OME lever. I also use lifting hooks which enables much
https://m.youtube.com/...tinue=2


I would argue that the Nautilus Neck and Shoulder with the Hutchins cam is far superior,as is the shrug component on the Nautilus Leverage Row/Shrug combo machine.
Leon

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Average Al

ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
Average Al wrote:
ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
One of the main reasons for serious neck training is to increase blood flow into and out of the brain.

Really? Exercise (in general) is associated with better blood flow to the brain and cognitive improvement. But neck training specifically? Can you cite any references.


@ Al,

I can see you did not read my original post where I referred to Rogers Athletics as the leader in neck training info. Someone changed the original post, so I can not fully blame you.

Look at Rogers Athletics
Then, updates
Blog,
The number one reason to train the neck.



Thanks for the lead, but that blog post didn't address my question.

The University College London study demonstrated that a certain kind of ultrasound scan could identify blood flow issues that appeared to be predictive of future risk for cognitive decline. There was nothing in that study which demonstrated that training of the neck muscles had any specific benefit for improving blood flow to the brain.

That inference, that neck training must therefore be beneficial to the flow of blood to the brain, seems to have come from the the Rogers Athletic person or persons who wrote the blog post. There are no references to scientific studies to support that claim. Hence my concern that that particular conclusion could well be "bro science".

I've done a little searching on google, and wasn't able to find any research which specifically looked at the impact of neck muscle training on carotid artery health or blood flow to the brain. I thought maybe you had such references, but that is obviously not the case.





Sleep apnea? I am size 22 inch shirts, with no sleep apnea, so I could care less?

Why do not you research this?



I have seen research on it. Neck size is a well known risk factor for sleep apnea.

This association is typically attributed to excess body fat. However, I know of two YouTube fitness personalities who suffer from the problem despite being quite lean and having reasonably muscular looking necks. So it does raise a question in my mind: Is the association of sleep apnea with neck size strictly a matter of excess body fat, or are there circumstances when excessive muscularity in the neck area could contribute to the problem? This seems like a worthwhile question to ask, in a thread where people such as yourself are touting the upside of having a thick and muscular neck.



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1958

Texas, USA

This is Marc Pharmcist,a/k/a marcph
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epdavis7

Some (not all) examples of people with thick over exaggerated neck size seem to be steroid users. I have a feeling but cannot prove that non steroid neck trainers who increase size and strength to a normal and natural size don?t suffer from apnea and other issues. I would suspect in most cases it is the extremely obese and those with over exaggerated neck size as a result of PEDs. Jeff King a great bodybuilder who never competed in the IFBB was obviously roided to the gills. Mike Mentzer said he could have walked on stage and done quite well in the Olympia. His quads rivaled Tom Platz.

A point of interest. I do a fair amount of grappling as part of self defense training. Past a certain point, neck size makes it easier to be choked out vice harder. Seems counterintuitive, but it?s true. Train your neck, make it stronger, but don?t obsess about it.
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ATP 4 Vitality

frostyF wrote:
ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
The trapezius muscle is one of the largest upper body muscles. The muscle helps with posture and breathing. This muscle is bigger than the chest but receives much less bro-science training research. This muscle greatly facilitates neck function.

The best ever trap machine ever built is the Nautilus OME by none other than the genius inventor Arthur Jones. I hook a parallel grip lat bar to the OME lever. I also use lifting hooks which enables much
https://m.youtube.com/...time_continue=2

I would argue that the Nautilus Neck and Shoulder with the Hutchins cam is far superior,as is the shrug component on the Nautilus Leverage Row/Shrug combo machine.
Leon



I have 2 of the 3 aforementioned. Both are good and can get-r-done. The lifting hooks and parallel grip lat bar take the OME to another level. Argue away!
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ATP 4 Vitality

Average Al wrote:
ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
Average Al wrote:
ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
One of the main reasons for serious neck training is to increase blood flow into and out of the brain.

Really? Exercise (in general) is associated with better blood flow to the brain and cognitive improvement. But neck training specifically? Can you cite any references.


@ Al,

I can see you did not read my original post where I referred to Rogers Athletics as the leader in neck training info. Someone changed the original post, so I can not fully blame you.

Look at Rogers Athletics
Then, updates
Blog,
The number one reason to train the neck.



Thanks for the lead, but that blog post didn't address my question.

The University College London study demonstrated that a certain kind of ultrasound scan could identify blood flow issues that appeared to be predictive of future risk for cognitive decline. There was nothing in that study which demonstrated that training of the neck muscles had any specific benefit for improving blood flow to the brain.

That inference, that neck training must therefore be beneficial to the flow of blood to the brain, seems to have come from the the Rogers Athletic person or persons who wrote the blog post. There are no references to scientific studies to support that claim. Hence my concern that that particular conclusion could well be "bro science".

I've done a little searching on google, and wasn't able to find any research which specifically looked at the impact of neck muscle training on carotid artery health or blood flow to the brain. I thought maybe you had such references, but that is obviously not the case.





Sleep apnea? I am size 22 inch shirts, with no sleep apnea, so I could care less?

Why do not you research this?



I have seen research on it. Neck size is a well known risk factor for sleep apnea.

This association is typically attributed to excess body fat. However, I know of two YouTube fitness personalities who suffer from the problem despite being quite lean and having reasonably muscular looking necks. So it does raise a question in my mind: Is the association of sleep apnea with neck size strictly a matter of excess body fat, or are there circumstances when excessive muscularity in the neck area could contribute to the problem? This seems like a worthwhile question to ask, in a thread where people such as yourself are touting the upside of having a thick and muscular neck.





Sorry the lead did not answer your question(s).
Sorry for my lack of interest in sleep apnea.
Too bad Nautilus has zero interest in legitimate research regarding neck exercise.

Can you imagine what could be learned with thermography/infrared imaging combined with ultrasound during dedicated neck training. And to think Arthur Jones and Nautilus tried this many years ago! The times, they are a changing!
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HeavyHitter32

epdavis7 wrote:
Some (not all) examples of people with thick over exaggerated neck size seem to be steroid users. I have a feeling but cannot prove that non steroid neck trainers who increase size and strength to a normal and natural size don?t suffer from apnea and other issues. I would suspect in most cases it is the extremely obese and those with over exaggerated neck size as a result of PEDs. Jeff King a great bodybuilder who never competed in the IFBB was obviously roided to the gills. Mike Mentzer said he could have walked on stage and done quite well in the Olympia. His quads rivaled Tom Platz.

A point of interest. I do a fair amount of grappling as part of self defense training. Past a certain point, neck size makes it easier to be choked out vice harder. Seems counterintuitive, but it?s true. Train your neck, make it stronger, but don?t obsess about it.


Sleep apnea is associated with neck size, but also jaw, throat airway size, and tongue size. Sometimes even large Adenoid and tonsils can play a role. Apnea is really multi-factorial sometimes.

Muscle relaxers, or certain meds (benzos) can sometimes play a role too in some cases as they can relax the throat tissues too much.

Someone with a large neck (even fat) might be okay if their mandible comes forward enough which usually means a more open throat airway, tongue not too large, etc.

Either way, heavy snoring is probably the biggest indicator of a problem.
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epdavis7

HeavyHitter32 wrote:
epdavis7 wrote:
Some (not all) examples of people with thick over exaggerated neck size seem to be steroid users. I have a feeling but cannot prove that non steroid neck trainers who increase size and strength to a normal and natural size don?t suffer from apnea and other issues. I would suspect in most cases it is the extremely obese and those with over exaggerated neck size as a result of PEDs. Jeff King a great bodybuilder who never competed in the IFBB was obviously roided to the gills. Mike Mentzer said he could have walked on stage and done quite well in the Olympia. His quads rivaled Tom Platz.

A point of interest. I do a fair amount of grappling as part of self defense training. Past a certain point, neck size makes it easier to be choked out vice harder. Seems counterintuitive, but it?s true. Train your neck, make it stronger, but don?t obsess about it.

Sleep apnea is associated with neck size, but also jaw, throat airway size, and tongue size. Sometimes even large Adenoid and tonsils can play a role. Apnea is really multi-factorial sometimes.

Muscle relaxers, or certain meds (benzos) can sometimes play a role too in some cases as they can relax the throat tissues too much.

Someone with a large neck (even fat) might be okay if their mandible comes forward enough which usually means a more open throat airway, tongue not too large, etc.

Either way, heavy snoring is probably the biggest indicator of a problem.


I don?t have apnea and rarely snore except when I?m completely exhausted. My wife says she knows when I have over done it and took to much on my plate for the day.
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Bill Sekerak

California, USA

Average Al wrote:
ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
One of the main reasons for serious neck training is to increase blood flow into and out of the brain.


Really? Exercise (in general) is associated with better blood flow to the brain and cognitive improvement. But neck training specifically? Can you cite any references?

What about the association of neck size with sleep apnea?

Sleep apnea associated by neck size is not caused by a muscular neck but a fat one that has loose tissue internally.


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Bill Sekerak

California, USA

Average Al wrote:
ATP 4 Vitality wrote:
One of the main reasons for serious neck training is to increase blood flow into and out of the brain.


Really? Exercise (in general) is associated with better blood flow to the brain and cognitive improvement. But neck training specifically? Can you cite any references?

What about the association of neck size with sleep apnea?

Sleep apnea associated by neck size is not caused by a muscular neck but a fat one that has loose tissue internally.


Open User Options Menu

Bill Sekerak

California, USA

epdavis7 wrote:
Here's a pic of Jeff King. His neck was overdeveloped for his body from an aesthetics perspective. If he had shaved his head he would have looked like a huge cawk lol.


Jeff King had a perfect physique in my opinion. Huge, well developed throughout symmetrical with no flaws ,lean and cut.
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Brian Johnston

Ontario, CAN

Neck training can also reduce cognitive decline, ie. dementia?


Not sure about that. Vigorous exercise can help reduce the effects of dementia due to forceful gushes of blood working through the body (thus reducing plaque build-up in the brain). Apparently, and this comes from some research (I guess take that with a grain of salt)... the only exercises that can have such an effect are deadlifts and squats performed with good effort (not to failure, but certain hard sets).
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MikaelPR

Marc
Would you post a pic of your OME with the parallel grip pulldown bar installed please ?
Thanks
Mike
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